AKAI says they will change the way we make music forever @ m

MeSoHordey wrote:There is a reason why stand alone MPCs are so desired. It's called latency. I also believe that certain units have a sound character which can't be replicated in software.

No one here has played with this new MPC, no one knows if latency is an issue or not.

Modern computers have enough power to lower latency to a point where it is not noticeable.

I do not think that standalone MPCs are desired because of latency at all, I think it is more because of the dedicated control surface/OS/sequencer and the workflow that comes with it, along with the tightness of the sequencer.

Certain older MPCs may have a certain character based on their bit rate and/or audio hardware.

More recent MPCs have standard, recent, audio hardware, this will not sound any different/worse than any MPCs since the 2000.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

MeSoHordey wrote:

SimonInAustralia wrote:Is this supposed to be a fully featured DAW?

I don't see anything on the website that suggests it is going to be a fully featured DAW at all.

I see what might be a graphical representation of the MPC sequencer tracks, which is a long way from it trying to be a fully featured DAW.

Do the features of the MPC Software on the same website suggest that it is a full DAW, or just the same MPC OS functions moved onto a computer?

What features on the website suggest to you that this is a full featured DAW competing with ProTools/Logic/CueBase/etc.?

MeSoHordey wrote:

SimonInAustralia wrote:Everyone is buying into the Akai 'change the way we make music forever' marketing hype, expecting that it actually will do that.

They said it.

It is marketing hype, work that out, ignore it, look at what the product and it's features actually are, use your brain.

All the info I've seen points to that being the GUI for the VST/AU/RTAS plugin. It seems to mirror the hardware layout in other screenshots I've seen. I'm sure it's the same as other VST that sequence separate from a DAW host like Maschine, BPM and Geist.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

MeSoHordey wrote:There is a reason why stand alone MPCs are so desired. It's called latency. I also believe that certain units have a sound character which can't be replicated in software.

No one here has played with this new MPC, no one knows if latency is an issue or not.

Modern computers have enough power to lower latency to a point where it is not noticeable.

I do not think that standalone MPCs are desired because of latency at all, I think it is more because of the dedicated control surface/OS/sequencer and the workflow that comes with it, along with the tightness of the sequencer.

Certain older MPCs may have a certain character based on their bit rate and/or audio hardware.

More recent MPCs have standard, recent, audio hardware, this will not sound any different/worse than any MPCs since the 2000.

Alright dude. Have fun with your controller and believing it is an actual MPC.

Metatron72 wrote:As to the computer aspect becoming transparent, you guys really think the usb interface they put in there will match a standalone MPC? That's RME, MOTU, Apogee and Echo territory there.

What about the audio hardware in older MPCs puts it on the same level as RME/MOTU/Apogee/Echo?

It is just stock standard DA circuitry, nothing special at all, no reason why this new MPC will not sound exactly the same as more recent/modern standalone MPCs.

MeSoHordey wrote:Alright dude. Have fun with your controller and believing it is an actual MPC.

The MPC controller, along with the MPC software, makes it an actual MPC.

That is what older standalone MPCs are, an MPC controller and MPC software, just self contained in the one unit.

Separating the MPC OS out of the MPC and into the computer will not change the music making functionality of the MPC.

It is not just a MIDI controller running some other audio/MIDI sequencing application, it is all MPC.

Metatron72 wrote:
I believe you all know I meant function as a standalone unit, I even have to spell that out? As to the computer aspect becoming transparent, you guys really think the usb interface they put in there will match a standalone MPC? That's RME, MOTU, Apogee and Echo territory there.

I think it's an interesting concept with potential for future improvement and growth, but it would be a much better product if it could function without a computer.

Anyone feel feel to throw Maschine this, Maschine that in my face. That product wasn't the extension of a previous hardware line were standalone is expected.

This MPC does have a built in AD/DA converters. Compare this with legacy MPCs not its USB port. Do I believe this will rival previous MPCs? Yes. I believe it will be equal to or better. Does it have to equal RME, MOTU, Apogee, and Echo (some of these don't get favorable reviews)? I am indifferent. But I do hope it can support the sound card of your choice like Maschine.

All previous MPCs can function without a computer. But they are all limited to their hardware specs. What would you think you would pay for a hardware MPC that supports VSTs? The hardware products on the market that supports VSTs are in the $2000+ range. I am 100% sure that many of your would be crying about the price. This new direction appears to keep prices more reasonable.

JAH wrote:

Metatron72 wrote:
I believe you all know I meant function as a standalone unit, I even have to spell that out? As to the computer aspect becoming transparent, you guys really think the usb interface they put in there will match a standalone MPC? That's RME, MOTU, Apogee and Echo territory there.

I think it's an interesting concept with potential for future improvement and growth, but it would be a much better product if it could function without a computer.

Anyone feel feel to throw Maschine this, Maschine that in my face. That product wasn't the extension of a previous hardware line were standalone is expected.

This MPC does have a built in AD/DA converters. Compare this with legacy MPCs not its USB port. Do I believe this will rival previous MPCs? Yes. I believe it will be equal to or better. Does it have to equal RME, MOTU, Apogee, and Echo (some of these don't get favorable reviews)? I am indifferent. But I do hope it can support the sound card of your choice like Maschine.

All previous MPCs can function without a computer. But they are all limited to their hardware specs. What would you think you would pay for a hardware MPC that supports VSTs? The hardware products on the market that supports VSTs are in the $2000+ range. I am 100% sure that many of your would be crying about the price. This new direction appears to keep prices more reasonable.

Yes and these convertors will be on par with $200-$300 interface I would bet. Rival a 1000/2500? Sure, my newer MPC's sound as digital as as my $300 M-Audio interface. I see the point of keeping costs down, but again I hardly think it's a bizarre idea that a hybrid MPC would function standalone as well.

There are issues with MOTU drivers on Windows, but I've never come across a disgruntled RME, Apogee or Echo user so I have no idea what you're hearing.

The smaller Renaissance will not have a built in interface, so I would guess you could bypass the in-built one on the full size unit.

Again, I'm just a bit surprised Akai didn't try to find a way to have both computer integration and a standalone MPC in one box. I think they could have kept it under $1500 and been able to state a case for value based on versatility. What they've come up with is interesting but if you already have an MPC and some software it's harder to assess this things usefulness. For someone just getting into gear now it's actually an attractive option.

I'm definitely curious about what's going on under the hood, and look forward to hearing the hands on feedback, especially from someone thorough like you JAH.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

Metatron72 wrote:As to the computer aspect becoming transparent, you guys really think the usb interface they put in there will match a standalone MPC? That's RME, MOTU, Apogee and Echo territory there.

What about the audio hardware in older MPCs puts it on the same level as RME/MOTU/Apogee/Echo?

It is just stock standard DA circuitry, nothing special at all, no reason why this new MPC will not sound exactly the same as more recent/modern standalone MPCs.

It's about timing. When you're working on an MPC, especially without timing correct on, it's a very very tight connection to the sequencer. You get amazing control over your hits. When you send a midi command to a PC, there is a delay. It occurs for a number of reasons, but the USB interface is often an important factor. Yeah the circuitry may ultimately be of the same quality, but the drivers can cause latency, or the way the VST is coded, or a number of other factors. If you're working with a timing correct on, or don't give a shit about syncing up with other devices, or can cope just by adjusting, that's fine. But if you're trying to develop your style, and introduce your own feel, it is a big deal. A lot of folks can tell the difference between the 96 PPQN capabilities of the 1000 and the 960 PPQN of the 5000 sequencers they are working on. Now introduce a 1 millisecond latency (that is in itself inconsistent) and tell me it doesn't matter.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

MeSoHordey wrote:Alright dude. Have fun with your controller and believing it is an actual MPC.

The MPC controller, along with the MPC software, makes it an actual MPC.

That is what older standalone MPCs are, an MPC controller and MPC software, just self contained in the one unit.

Separating the MPC OS out of the MPC and into the computer will not change the music making functionality of the MPC.

It is not just a MIDI controller running some other audio/MIDI sequencing application, it is all MPC.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree then.

MeSoHordey wrote:It's about timing. When you're working on an MPC, especially without timing correct on, it's a very very tight connection to the sequencer. You get amazing control over your hits. When you send a midi command to a PC, there is a delay. It occurs for a number of reasons, but the USB interface is often an important factor. Yeah the circuitry may ultimately be of the same quality, but the drivers can cause latency, or the way the VST is coded, or a number of other factors. If you're working with a timing correct on, or don't give a **** about syncing up with other devices, or can cope just by adjusting, that's fine. But if you're trying to develop your style, and introduce your own feel, it is a big deal. A lot of folks can tell the difference between the 96 PPQN capabilities of the 1000 and the 960 PPQN of the 5000 sequencers they are working on. Now introduce a 1 millisecond latency (that is in itself inconsistent) and tell me it doesn't matter.

Timing in playback and performance might be an issue, we don't know yet.

They might have optimised it for low latency, having their own MPC application, USB/audio/MIDI interfaces, and obviously drivers to go with that.

I don't think 1 millisecond of just playback latency does really matter, that equals sound traveling a distance of 1 foot, it would be like moving your speakers 1 foot further away from you.

A timing difference in the sequencer between 96 ppqn and 960 ppqn is something different to a playback latency from hitting the pad to sound coming out.

It is impossible to know if any of this is going to be an issue until we play with it, experience any latency/timing issues in actual use, and no one here has yet, we will have to wait until people play with it at NAMM in a couple of weeks, and then when it is available to the public sometime after that.

MeSoHordey wrote:

SimonInAustralia wrote:

MeSoHordey wrote:Alright dude. Have fun with your controller and believing it is an actual MPC.

The MPC controller, along with the MPC software, makes it an actual MPC.

That is what older standalone MPCs are, an MPC controller and MPC software, just self contained in the one unit.

Separating the MPC OS out of the MPC and into the computer will not change the music making functionality of the MPC.

It is not just a MIDI controller running some other audio/MIDI sequencing application, it is all MPC.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree then.

Yes, we will.

Have a think about what makes an MPC what it is, the separate functions that are going on inside a standalone MPC, control surface/LCD screen/CPU/sequencer/sampling engine/audio interface/MIDI interface/etc..

Is it really the dedicated control surface and screen, along with the simple MPC software/sequencer, etc., that makes an MPC what it is?

How does moving the MPC software out of the box change the MPC experience, change what the MPC is, in terms of actually making beats on it?

If you are using the new MPC controller and LCD screen to do everything when making music, if it feels/looks/works just like an older standalone MPC in actual use, why does it matter if the MPC software is running inside the MPC or on an external computer?

We have to wait to see what it is like in the real world, but there is no reason it couldn't be very similar to a stand alone MPC in actual use.

Metatron72 wrote:
Yes and these convertors will be on par with $200-$300 interface I would bet. Rival a 1000/2500? Sure, my newer MPC's sound as digital as as my $300 M-Audio interface. I see the point of keeping costs down, but again I hardly think it's a bizarre idea that a hybrid MPC would function standalone as well.

There are issues with MOTU drivers on Windows, but I've never come across a disgruntled RME, Apogee or Echo user so I have no idea what you're hearing.

The smaller Renaissance will not have a built in interface, so I would guess you could bypass the in-built one on the full size unit.

Again, I'm just a bit surprised Akai didn't try to find a way to have both computer integration and a standalone MPC in one box. I think they could have kept it under $1500 and been able to state a case for value based on versatility. What they've come up with is interesting but if you already have an MPC and some software it's harder to assess this things usefulness. For someone just getting into gear now it's actually an attractive option.

I'm definitely curious about what's going on under the hood, and look forward to hearing the hands on feedback, especially from someone thorough like you JAH.

I am the last person on earth to say it would be bizarre to have a stand alone MPC which is also a hybrid. But....I don't believe that product would sell. It would be too expensive. Make it using lower priced materials, people will rant about the quality.

I have a $3000 Korg Kronos that just died on me after only having it for 6 months. Korg cut corners like a mofo with this workstation.

I have an MPC and software. Been using MPCs for over a decade. I saw the instant potential in this product as this is the product that is nearly identical to my 3 year old feature request threads. Once it hits the streets, I will not try to sell people on it. Either you want it or not.

Jahrome or whatever your name is...

Dude you'd buy anything.

Akai could sell you a brick of shit and call it the MPC5000LE and you would still buy it.

Korg could announce at NAMM that the KRONOS 2 will be out and you'd still buy that too.

MeSoHordey wrote:It's about timing. When you're working on an MPC, especially without timing correct on, it's a very very tight connection to the sequencer. You get amazing control over your hits. When you send a midi command to a PC, there is a delay. It occurs for a number of reasons, but the USB interface is often an important factor. Yeah the circuitry may ultimately be of the same quality, but the drivers can cause latency, or the way the VST is coded, or a number of other factors.

It will be interesting to see how VST plugins affect latency and timing.

Explicit- wrote:Jahrome or whatever your name is...

Dude you'd buy anything.

Akai could sell you a brick of **** and call it the MPC5000LE and you would still buy it.

Korg could announce at NAMM that the KRONOS 2 will be out and you'd still buy that too.

And why not? For one...I have the money. And two...I purchase any new product I am excited about. As long as Akai produces highend MPCs, I would buy them. This is an MPC Forum right? For a second, I thought I am on the MV Forum.

And no...I am done with Korg workstations. I am completely unhappy with the Kronos. I will most likely pick up a Motif XF.

The question I have for you is.....why so much passion for a product you dislike from a company that you hate? I get it already. You hate this new MPC. I like it. Can we move on?