latency!.....is my concern with Renaissance

Retrofreak wrote:Playing live, with delay compensation

You couldn't. Which is why I'm saying no plugin maker would make a professional VI that induced any latency. Doesn't make sense. Show me one virtual instrument plugin that causes extra latency! I have close to probably 15 different VI's and not a single one of them causes latency.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:Playing live, with delay compensation

You couldn't. Which is why I'm saying no plugin maker would make a professional VI that induced any latency. Doesn't make sense. Show me one virtual instrument plugin that causes extra latency! I have close to probably 15 different VI's and not a single one of them causes latency.

I use my MPC 3000 and 5000 to trigger my DAW's as sound modules and as soon as VST's are added latency begins.

I use:

Kontakt instruments (60/70's drums)
Maschine Library
Motu BPM
Beat Thang Virtual

When programming in loops for a while, Pro Tools and Logic often lock up.

When using Maschine in standalone as more tracks and plugins are added the more unstable the timing gets regardless of hardware configs.

When tracking out what's been programmed timing is often shifted regardless of ADC...it sucks and kills my creativity.

I've been making music professionally for 20 years and this latency /delay stuff sucks.

The solution was summed up on the first page....

The last time I checked all virtual instruments create 30 samples of latency as standard. You can check this is Pro Tools if you have it. Select the sample display at the bottom of the track. 30 samples is nothing and would not affect how anyone performed. And again, latency is ONLY an issue if you start using plugins which induce latency such as look ahead compressors, some standard compressors, phase accurate EQs etc.


The advice is simple. Just be careful what plugins you use whilst writing. if you slap something on a buss or a track and suddenly that kik drum pad your hitting is delayed you will have to remove that plugin until your ready to mix down. Simple.

Retrofreak wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:Playing live, with delay compensation

You couldn't. Which is why I'm saying no plugin maker would make a professional VI that induced any latency. Doesn't make sense. Show me one virtual instrument plugin that causes extra latency! I have close to probably 15 different VI's and not a single one of them causes latency.

I use my MPC 3000 and 5000 to trigger my DAW's as sound modules and as soon as VST's are added latency begins.

I use:

Kontakt instruments (60/70's drums)
Maschine Library
Motu BPM
Beat Thang Virtual

When programming in loops for a while, Pro Tools and Logic often lock up.

When using Maschine in standalone as more tracks and plugins are added the more unstable the timing gets regardless of hardware configs.

When tracking out what's been programmed timing is often shifted regardless of ADC...it sucks and kills my creativity.

I've been making music professionally for 20 years and this latency /delay stuff sucks.

Then the problem is with you or your computer. Doesn't matter how long you've been doing music if you're doing something incorrectly or if your computer is just inadequate!

Now take this picture as example that I just made. I loaded 10 DIFFERENT VI's into Pro Tools. Could have loaded more, but it wouldn't all fit on the screen. I've got Xpand going. Got Philharmonik going. Trilogy going. Reason 5 going with a heavy beat loaded. Maschine is going with a couple instances of Kontakt 4 loaded. Battery and more. And I can trigger all of them with any of my MPC's or with Maschine! All that shit loaded at the SAME time and take notice at what the "DLY" value is for each of the TEN VI tracks! 0! ZERO SAMPLES OF DELAY! AND ZERO SAMPLES OF AUDIO BEING COMPENSATED! And as you can see, my CPU is only being used up by 20%. The only thing taking a hit is my RAM. And that will only cause pops and clicks in the audio if anything, not extra latency; even if I had notes playing through all of them at once. And even still, how many people would use all this shit at once anyway?! AND, this is on my FAMILY COMPUTER and on 32-bit application (Pro Tools) with the internet browser open, anti-virus running as well as a bunch of other background shit running. Now imagine if I was on my studio rig which is running 16GB RAM and running all of this in a 64-bit environment such as Maschine or Reaper. How you gonna say latency is an issue???

Thats nice, but as I said when I track out, notes are shifted.

This happens on many different Mac or PC configs I have.

When I hit the MPC pads there is a delay..the more plugs thats added the worse it gets.

Computers used:

Mac Book Pro 17" i7 2.2 8GB ram with Apogee Duet 2

Open Labs Miko i7 980x 12GB ram, W7 64 bit , RME 800 and Mackie Onyx 1640i

What interface are you running?

Retrofreak wrote:Thats nice, but as I said when I track out, notes are shifted.

This happens on many different Mac or PC configs I have.

What interface are you running?

003R in the studio, but an Mbox micro on this computer (which I don't track the MPC with)! Never had an issue with notes shifting. But with MPC, I use MTC, not midi clock. With Maschine, I just setup the scenes in song mode and just track the whole thing in one pass through rewire, same thing with Reason!

Retrofreak wrote:When I hit the MPC pads there is a delay..the more plugs thats added the worse it gets.

Computers used:

Mac Book Pro 17" i7 2.2 8GB ram with Apogee Duet 2

Open Labs Miko i7 980x 12GB ram, W7 64 bit , RME 800 and Mackie Onyx 1640i

Sounds like a buffer issue. Have you tried reducing the buffer/latency to 64 or even 128? I think you can even get down to 32 on the Mac! Those i7's are beasts and can take a lot of abuse! And I've read that RME makes some of the lowest latency interfaces!

I also have a colleague that complains of the same problem on a MBP 15" Core 2, 266 4GB

He also uses his MPC 3000 to trigger Kontakt via Pro Tools 9 on various buffer settings.

It's starts off ok, then starts glitching or locks up when more tracks are added.


Yes I always start the buffer size at 64 then never move past 256 on bigger sessions, but it's hit and miss.

I simply prefer an MPC and midi gear as all I had to worry about was note robbing opposed to phrases being shifted, delays, clicks, pops and freezes.

Retrofreak wrote:I also have a colleague that complains of the same problem on a MPB 15" Core 2, 266 4GB

He also uses his MPC 3000 to trigger Kontakt via Pro Tools 9 on various buffer settings.

It's starts off ok, then starts glitching or locks up when more tracks are added.

Yeah, the glitching is likely the pops and clicks I mentioned. This is due to the 4GB ram limitation in Pro Tools. Like I said, if you run Kontakt in 64-bit mode of Maschine, he shouldn't experience that, as long as he has a 64 bit os. But 4GB ram ain't enough for multiple instances of a VI! 8 is the recommended minumum of some single plugins. But even still, those pops and clicks are just audio artifacts which is completely different than latency!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:I also have a colleague that complains of the same problem on a MPB 15" Core 2, 266 4GB

He also uses his MPC 3000 to trigger Kontakt via Pro Tools 9 on various buffer settings.

It's starts off ok, then starts glitching or locks up when more tracks are added.

Yeah, the glitching is likely the pops and clicks I mentioned. This is due to the 4GB ram limitation in Pro Tools. Like I said, if you run Kontakt in 64-bit mode of Maschine, he shouldn't experience that, as long as he has a 64 bit os. But 4GB ram ain't enough for multiple instances of a VI! 8 is the recommended minumum of some single plugins. But even still, those pops and clicks are just audio artifacts which is completely different than latency!

I hear ya, but what I'm saying is with todays advancements and power we shouldn't have to dick about with buffer settings to get a drum sequence to run halfway stable.

With the amount of power I have on my computers they still lock up when I'm programming in loop record.

I started out on an Atari ST and MPC 60 and I know they did less, but they handled timing so much better imho.

Retrofreak wrote:I also have a colleague that complains of the same problem on a MBP 15" Core 2, 266 4GB

He also uses his MPC 3000 to trigger Kontakt via Pro Tools 9 on various buffer settings.

It's starts off ok, then starts glitching or locks up when more tracks are added.


Yes I always start the buffer size at 64 then never move past 256 on bigger sessions, but it's hit and miss.

I simply prefer an MPC and midi gear as all I had to worry about was note robbing opposed to phrases being shifted, delays, clicks, pops and freezes.

One work around for the RAM limitation is to track some of the finished melodies to audio and disable the plugin while working on the other melodies/plugins. Then re-enable to tweak if needed!

Retrofreak wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:I also have a colleague that complains of the same problem on a MPB 15" Core 2, 266 4GB

He also uses his MPC 3000 to trigger Kontakt via Pro Tools 9 on various buffer settings.

It's starts off ok, then starts glitching or locks up when more tracks are added.

Yeah, the glitching is likely the pops and clicks I mentioned. This is due to the 4GB ram limitation in Pro Tools. Like I said, if you run Kontakt in 64-bit mode of Maschine, he shouldn't experience that, as long as he has a 64 bit os. But 4GB ram ain't enough for multiple instances of a VI! 8 is the recommended minumum of some single plugins. But even still, those pops and clicks are just audio artifacts which is completely different than latency!

I hear ya, but what I'm saying is with todays advancements and power we shouldn't have to dick about with buffer settings to get a drum sequence to run halfway stable.

With the amount of power I have on my computers they still lock up when I'm programming in loop record.

I don't have those issues with mine! Everything runs tight and true for me. And my beat sessions are usually 12-18 tracks. But I don't use VI's on all of them, unless it's Reason! If you were to run Kontakt in 64-bit stand alone mode and trigger/sequence from the MPC, you shouldn't have any issues with having several patches loaded unless you don't have enough RAM. Then when you go to track the beat into 32-bit Pro Tools, you can raise the buffer and track, or keep the buffer low and track a few patches at a time, which is essentially the same as having limited i/o for tracking hardware modules. Shouldn't take more than two passes unless you use a lot of parts.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:I also have a colleague that complains of the same problem on a MBP 15" Core 2, 266 4GB

He also uses his MPC 3000 to trigger Kontakt via Pro Tools 9 on various buffer settings.

It's starts off ok, then starts glitching or locks up when more tracks are added.


Yes I always start the buffer size at 64 then never move past 256 on bigger sessions, but it's hit and miss.

I simply prefer an MPC and midi gear as all I had to worry about was note robbing opposed to phrases being shifted, delays, clicks, pops and freezes.

One work around for the RAM limitation is to track some of the finished melodies to audio and disable the plugin while working on the other melodies/plugins. Then re-enable to tweak if needed!

I already I work like this,

For the most part grooves start sounding awkward as a delay between what has already been tracked and what is being overdubbed live starts to take place.

It's forgivable on legato instruments, but as I'm more of a percussionist, triggering sloppy VST drum sounds is a dead give away.

I ditched Cubase 5 because of this delay, the best DAW i've come across for remedying the above was Reaper, but as a long time PT user I found Reapers audio routing confusing.