MPC Renaissance vs Legacy MPCs

JAH wrote:And I know its true..I just don't want to believe it. Or at least a hybrid MPC that can be standalone and work in a computer environment.

And this is what I find funny about you JAH. Because this is what myself and others were saying Akai should have done from the start. You got on your high horse and bounced around some weight. Now, days later, you're saying exactly what we said.

Hybrid is the way they should have went. I put a post up on this. They could have used the 2500 as a base unit to develop their hybrid. And/or the 1000.

Now, if they'd done that I would have been an instant Akai fanboy and would have held of the purchase of my Tempest for it.

Back in 2005 or so when the Roland MV8000 came out most of us 4k users at least for wishing for a more integrated Aksys program to work with an hardware unit. But Numark instead when to the synth/drum sampler route with less complexity rather a full sampler and most pros were into audio tracking via Pro Tools. More advanced software keygroup samplers by Konkact, EXS24, Mach and Live Sampler took over the sampling engine front and the controllers also with the daw sequencers to run them made a huge deficit on the hardware market. So Mpcs could still excel with loops and phrases with timslicing but then Ableton dropped too and cut into that too. A hardware hybrid like my access ti polar that would have work as a vst in my daw might have had a chance via usb2 or a FireWire unit but it never occurred. The strength of the mpc is its sequencer and the layout of the workflow on it's front top surface.

Honestly the market changed when software sampler/sequencer controller models started to be released.

Blue Haze wrote:A hardware hybrid like my access ti polar that would have work as a vst in my daw might have had a chance via usb2 or a FireWire unit but it never occurred. The strength of the mpc is its sequencer and the layout of the workflow on it's front top surface.

Honestly the market changed when software sampler/sequencer controller models started to be released.

That's the exact example I gave (the Virus) and that's the route I feel they should have went down.

We are saying the same thing put this was the idea put forth in 2005-2006 time period. Just the paradigm changed as I stated as unlike the virus the market for high end hardware synths hasn't been overtaken by software but it is close; whereas, the market for hardware samplers and sequencers have lost to software.

Blue Haze wrote:We are saying the same thing put this was the idea put forth in 2005-2006 time period. Just the paradigm changed as I stated as unlike the virus the market for high end hardware synths hasn't been overtaken by software but it is close; whereas, the market for hardware samplers and sequencers have lost to software.

Well, that's subjective. I think today many would rather purchase software than spend thousands on hardware. Even with the Virus people would rather go for the cheaper z3ta software alternative.

One of the reason software is favoured over hardware is price. The majority of bedroom producers don't have a disposable income to purchase hardware. Once you have software, it seems silly to use hardware because it don't fit into your current software workflow (unless there is a hybrid).

I wouldn't say hardware is dead. It's just not as available as software. You can't download an MPC 3000 from PirateBay like you can with {Insert Software Here}.

Everything I stated was from the Numark production information for the bottom line sales for pro, mid, and consumer orientated product line. It is no wonder Akai and Roland were the last hardware sampler makers in the industry of samplers til 2008 and all the products released on the market has been midi controllers for software samplers/daws.

And of course software is cheaper than hardware it has been so for years but a simple fact is software samplers are far more powerful than hardware samplers been stating.

Many pros invest in software samplers over hardware too also and the majority of sample libraries are in the soft samplers format.

As it was explained by my contact the aim was to focus on one of the main strengths of the mpc as a premier sequencer that can incorporate the soft samplers and soft synths of leading third party developers.

This supposedly keeps it relevant to logic, ableton, cubase, and others as well as maschine. Remember the 5k was meant to be the standalone version of this giving you the ability to record, arrange, mix and bounce down stereo audio tracks without the need of a daw.


And please be on point I stated that hardware samplers has lost to soft samplers market wise. Sampling drum machines are sadly following that way too less and less manufactures when the software makers are leading the market.

On the real Akai should have released the fusion sampling engine instead of the 5k back in the day along with a hybrid usb2 connected software to compete against mv8000 in 2008 but that is water under the bridge. They are going with software engine residing in the computer with mpc exterior shell to retain the workflow.

That's an interesting response Blue Haze. I'm all for software samplers myself. For my electronic productions I rely on Kontakt a lot and couldn't live without it.

Back in 2005 there was even a reach out by old akai to work with ableton to join forces but it never panned out. Chop shop by then numark by then came about. Boy that would have something to have the elastic audio of ableton engine instead of tradition sampling engine but woulda, coulda, shoulda, is no use. But a mpc ren vst open in Ableton could work out. Or konkakt inside the ren in standalone mode along with ozone 5 mastering could be the way who knows.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the end of hardware samplers from Akai.

But I'll be interested to see if in years to come, there is a renaissance for hardware sampling - in just the same way that lots of big brands (Korg, Roland, etc) phased out analogue synths in the 80s & 90s, but Korg has now rediscovered analogue for modern times.

lordrockwell wrote:It wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the end of hardware samplers from Akai.

But I'll be interested to see if in years to come, there is a renaissance for hardware sampling - in just the same way that lots of big brands (Korg, Roland, etc) phased out analogue synths in the 80s & 90s, but Korg has now rediscovered analogue for modern times.

Well I'm never selling my mpc.

There may be a deluge of used hardware mpcs hitting the market in end of the year 2012. But just like in the tr808, SP1200, S950s, and Jupiter keyboards of old in my opinion it is wise to keep at least one or some of our legacy if you can afford too when buy new gear and use new technology.

I know we all have gone through studio changes and gradual settled down to a workflow setup that works for us. But will change comes adjustment and gaining familiarity which takes time. I plan to keep my 4k so I can come back to it when the mood hits me , but I will invest in new technology as I see the potential of the Ren and studio.

The matter of keeping my 4k is that I know it so well that I have muscle memory that the new gear will be an adjustment. The lesson I learn switch from the 2xl to 4 was it can be frustrating relearn a new tool with different terms and parameters. One cab do better by easing into the new gear if they can periodically fall back on the legacy unit ( which helped with my maschine purchase too).

However for a newbie diving straight into new technology is no problem as you have no carry over workflow you have to readjust. The one disadvantage may be lack of the basics for drum programming and sampling techniques that alot of automation actually hurts a newbie development.

Anyways we should appreciate the hardware we have as one never knows when one might reincorporate it in our production somehow.

JamesJeffery wrote:

JAH wrote:And I know its true..I just don't want to believe it. Or at least a hybrid MPC that can be standalone and work in a computer environment.

And this is what I find funny about you JAH. Because this is what myself and others were saying Akai should have done from the start. You got on your high horse and bounced around some weight. Now, days later, you're saying exactly what we said.

Hybrid is the way they should have went. I put a post up on this. They could have used the 2500 as a base unit to develop their hybrid. And/or the 1000.

Now, if they'd done that I would have been an instant Akai fanboy and would have held of the purchase of my Tempest for it.

I have come up with so many MPCs ideas over the years..to include something similar to Ren as well as a hybrid MPC along the lines of the Motif XF. This is not something new for me. Search the forums and you will see thousands of my posts.

Akai decided to go with the control surface + software MPC. I'm good with that. Maybe in the future they will go with a standalone hardware unit that can also be used in a computer environment. I would be good with that too. But you will most likely never hear me say I can't enjoy a product because it doesn't do everything that I want it to....(regardless of my comments about Maschine).

If you have a hardware mpc now that is good. You should keep it if you can
afford too. The techniques learned on it with help your production and develop
your own style because of each units limitations. If you are a newcomer to the mpc series now may be a good time to pick up a used model as the latest and greatest technology can be a bit overwhelmng for anyone used learning the basics and the what
all the technical terms mean (tilt velocity anyone?), what is a multi? And most importantly the manual will tell what the functions are but not how to build a beat, play a chord progression, or tweak a dilla kick all of that stuff you have to figure out yourself or at least watch a more experienced friend or mentor. My point is the classic mpcs were very user friendly that you could basically open the box and within a few days get a decent beat going without prior music or technical training at all.

Now the Ren is the newest mpc that should incorporate the workflow at least of the
traditional hardware mpc and I do believe it will, but I do think from what I been seeing
in the current threads that some users may not be adjusted or used to working in a computer or daw environment which does take a new technics and skill set to work in as
the Renaissance is a computer based unit!!! Many of us that are accustomed to the workflow of DAWs and other software oriented sequencers will have a easier
time learning the extra parts of the Ren within a Daw or standalone mode. If a person is new to computers it may be of help to start working more with their current daw to
get a handle of things to come.

my guess is: the Ren & the Studio are just the first wave of releases. they do 2 things:

1. they help stop the slow but steady march of people switching over to Maschine, & maybe win some people back that have already switched.

2. it establishes the editing software, and gives Akai time to develop it & work out the bugs.


i bet by around the end of the year they will release one or more new hardware MPCs that will be fully compatible with the software that they've already released for the Ren & the Studio, but can also be used fully standalone without a computer. if Akai is smart, the first one they release will be based on the form factor of their biggest seller: the MPC 1000.

now my wildest dream, which would be mindblowing if Akai could make happen, would be for this new hardware MPC to also be able to host VST plugins (like the Ren and Maschine do virtually on a computer). so you could load the plugins into the MPC and then take it out and use them standalone as built-in fx or synths, sequenced and automated internally inside the MPC via midi.

if they could do that and somehow make it affordable, it goes without saying that it would be a huge success for them.

Sooty_G wrote:now my wildest dream, which would be mindblowing if Akai could make happen, would be for this new hardware MPC to also be able to host VST plugins (like the Ren and Maschine do virtually on a computer). so you could load the plugins into the MPC and then take it out and use them standalone as built-in fx or synths, sequenced and automated internally inside the MPC via midi.

if they could do that and somehow make it affordable, it goes without saying that it would be a huge success for them.

i think the issue here is the whole third party thing - they wouldn't have control over the vst makers and so you get a crappy plugin in there which makes yer hardware unstable, and people start blaming the hardware.

the only devices i know of hardware-wise that host vsts are the muse receptor and the openlabs stuff - neither are close to what i would call affordable and i imagine that's for a reason.

but keep dreaming - stay in school - get the knowledge - get the contacts - make it happen