The Software looks dope!

Coz wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:Ren is not a audio mixer. You will still need to print your midi files to audio which the same as any other mpc by tracking it in or bouncing down to audio stems.

If the audio resides on your computer and you can use VST effects, I imagine you can do a very nicely polished 'rough mix' before you even have to think about tracking out.

That just it we have samples not audio tracks just like all the other mpc, maschine, and other pieces. Of course if can do a rough mix and some hand draw automation but a full fledgr daw can give you a full mix.

Ren shouldn't be expected to be a full fledged daw no more than mashine. Which is the prototype.

What do you really need from a DAW that you just couldn't do onboard the Ren? Producers were doing just fine mixing in Nuendo 1 over a decade ago.

Blue Haze wrote:Of course if can do a rough mix and some hand draw automation but a full fledgr daw can give you a full mix.

With a bit of flexible routing I can see kids (or whoever) creating full mixes with this software. There's people out there who still 2 track the MP, so if nothing else it should give them more options.

I'm curious about the 'samples' verses 'audio tracks' part of your reply. If you process either through plugins and export to a 2 track what's the difference?

For example, I may have a bunch of snares mixed down onto an audio track or they may still be triggered from Kontakt. When exporting the entire project it makes no sonic difference to the end result. With audio stems I gain certain flexibility but lose midi functions and vice versa.

I will be using Ren as a plugin in a daw and tracking out for my mixes even akai knows this. And they never intend it to be a daw. They designed a virtual mpc with a controller. Which is why they are going to promote it at namm with a major daw for studio integration. Sorry to say it but it is Ren the sequencer/sampler not Ren the multrack recorder/audio mixer. Wishful thinking is ok but........ an mpc is just that sequencer/sampler period and that is enough.

Anyways watch the footage at Namm and hit me back. No audio tracks just a simple bounce of your sequence or export to audio same as we do now in standalone mode.


@ Coz it sounds like your process it outside of the app itself and how to route midi tracks??? Ren has midi tracks no audio tracks?

JAH wrote:What do you really need from a DAW that you just couldn't do onboard the Ren? Producers were doing just fine mixing in Nuendo 1 over a decade ago.

no one knows because no one has had the opportunity to try it yet..

Blue Haze wrote:an mpc is just that sequencer/sampler period and that is enough.

In the software world it isn't enough IMO.

Blue Haze wrote:@ Coz it sounds like your process it outside of the app itself and how to route midi tracks??? Ren has midi tracks no audio tracks?

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

Well you talk about two tracking which mean to use some kind of recorder. Ren is a mpc which means bouncing down the stereo outputs into a long ass sample. Which we usually send off to iTunes or such. You can merge another sound to that sample using sample edit functions but there wont be the bouncing to tracks cuz ren has no audio tracks. Ren is the same as mpc now midi tracks with exception of the 5k and 2k5.

As far as sequencer/sampler what I meant is most people already have a great multitrack recorder/mixer and akai should just stick to getting the Ren as close to hardware mpc in feel, workflow, and utility as possible. If they tried to be a jack of all trades they are liable to stumble. Less is more somtimes. After which if they get the mpc part right then upgrade it to take on Pro Tools, Logic and the others.

For me it has to beat my 4k or at least be the equivalent. A great midi sequencer with the midi editing ease, midi track programming, shifting, timing and swing. Plus a great sampler with clarity, bitrate, sample editing and program matrix of sorts。

Blue Haze wrote:Digital Audio Workstation


1. a true mixer mixes audio.

2. Automation lines can be curved, straight, and stepped by drawing in. All of the mpcs are a bit jagged if you are just using a qlink controller in real time.



3. All I`m stating is simply the Ren and all mpcs operate the same as midi mixers. All mpc are midi mixers like way back in the 80s when Logic was Notation and just midi channels control the sampler or synths, but the outputs of those run into a hardware mixer and then to a multrack recorder of some sort.

Ren is not a audio mixer. You will still need to print your midi files to audio which the same as any other mpc by tracking it in or bouncing down to audio stems. Digital Audio Workstation is the same as a hardware mixer and audio multi tracker in one which is why akai designed it as a plugin and with audio outputs.


That said do as you will as many people bounce down the sampler audio out the box with little to no mixing I do too sometimes for demos. But when I do mix I bring it into my DAW of choice (logic) to serious tackle it with the audio on their own tracks and subgroups for stems.

Not to start yet another 10 page debate, but...

1. If it has 2 or more independent channels going to one common output, it is a mixer. The is no in between, or "true" anything about it. Secondly, a DAW means Digital Audio Workstation, like you said. The Ren is digital (and/or analog to digital), deals with audio, and has a platform for you to work with that digital audio. That constitutes as a DAW, be it as simple as a 24 track hardware/hard disk recorder or a 700+ track Pro Tools HD system, it's a DAW. Do I think it will replace peoples Logic, PT, Ableton setups? No! But as someones first/only DAW, it can/will do!

2. Doesn't matter what the lines look like. If it's programming that is written for a parameter to change automatically at a certain point in time, it's automation, period.

3. What you are explaining is basically the different between midi tracks and audio tracks. In the end, the midi notes are still triggering AUDIO that is being fed to adjustable gain faders that adjust the gain of that audio being triggered by the midi notes. It's still an audio mixer. You can't "mix" midi since midi is not audio.

So let me ask you this! Below, I have pictures of a beat I'm running in Pro Tools, and it's all comprised of instrument/midi tracks with no actual audio tracks/files. Just midi notes, which I can level, automate pitch, mutes, gain, sends, add processing plugins, ets, which I can bounce to disk as a stereo audio file, just as I can with actual audio tracks . You're telling me that I am just mixing midi here? And you're telling me that what's pictured in the second pic is not a mixer, or not being used as a "true" mixer rather? And that I am not using this as a true DAW?

Blue Haze wrote:

Coz wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:Ren is not a audio mixer. You will still need to print your midi files to audio which the same as any other mpc by tracking it in or bouncing down to audio stems.

If the audio resides on your computer and you can use VST effects, I imagine you can do a very nicely polished 'rough mix' before you even have to think about tracking out.

That just it we have samples not audio tracks just like all the other mpc, maschine, and other pieces. Of course if can do a rough mix and some hand draw automation but a full fledgr daw can give you a full mix.

The audio you record into Pro Tools are basically just samples in the same sense. It's just you can do more with those samples in Pro Tools. Doesn't mean the MPC isn't a DAW. You can do more with a beat in an MPC than you can with an SP 303, but that doesn't mean the 303 isn't a beat machine/sampler! But what you're saying is true, highly obvious, but true!

JAH wrote:What do you really need from a DAW that you just couldn't do onboard the Ren? Producers were doing just fine mixing in Nuendo 1 over a decade ago.

If you are spoiled and have countless aux tracks at your disposal, 10 plugin inserts and 10 individual sends per track, you could become very limited in what you can do with what looks to be included with Ren, depending on the complexity of your beats/compositions of course. The average boom bap guy may be fine, but a composer 20-30 instruments or a dance producer with all kinds of side chain compressors could be pretty restricted if coming from a bigger DAW. But these guys will most likely already have a bigger DAW to track out to anyway. However, for the people that this will be there first DAW and aren't used to anything more advance or would "know what they are missing" so-to-speak, I think they will do fine for a while. Then they can move to something more advanced when they are ready or feel the need, which some may and some may not!

Blue Haze wrote:Well you talk about two tracking which mean to use some kind of recorder. Ren is a mpc which means bouncing down the stereo outputs into a long ass sample.

Two tracking = "bouncing down the stereo outputs into a long ass sample"

Blue Haze wrote:Well you talk about two tracking which mean to use some kind of recorder.

Not really. I was more specifically talking about exporting/bouncing/rendering the 'finished' mix directly out of the standalone Ren software.

My main point is that if you have 4 inserts per sound, maybe even 4 per program (not an MPC feature I know, but let's speculate for a moment) and also 4 master effect slots, you could potentially have a very professional sounding mix right out of the MPC software if you know what you're doing.

The fact that it is midi triggering audio has no relevance when working in a DAW.

cyrus wrote:regarding the DAW stuff, if its on par with maschine, you should be able to export each track as a wav, then just import that into your DAW.

bare minimum it needs to be able to:
1. export track(s) to wav
2.export song (tracks separated or main outs)
3.export/resample pad to clear up fx

another option would be for them to add some kind of audio track feature (nym was asking about this in another thread).

bare minimum.... rewire compliant

cyrus wrote:they better have those knobs assigned to sample start and end points when editing a sample, if not, they can go fck themselves, same with zoom.

they have that with the 1000 so i don't think they would not incorporate it with this... at least with the Renaissance.

I had to get my rest cuz of time difference. All I will say this. I owned a 2xl, 3k, and 1k before. I worked with 2k5 and the 5k on loan. I currently own a 4k and maschine. Ren is no different than any of these in principle in mixing. I have balance my tracks, pan and filtered and used sends in my mpcs especially when I first started years ago. Rough mixes are fine but we all graduate eventually to a multitracker of some sort to separate the instruments.

Now the closest working model using vsts is on the market we have to the Ren is maschine And I see that many are savoring the possibilities of a independent daw like mpc but it will be like maschine and spark. Sure you can mix in all, host eq instrument plugins and effect plugins. I sometimes bounce down in maschine for demos will decent results. And I use export audio for stems and route my outputs to auxs in my regular daw.


Now if my units were a full daw that would be all I need. But I'm speaking to experienced users. You guys are not newbies wanting just a rough beat. A full daw comes with three kinds of tracks instrument channels, midi channels, and audio channels. My whole gripe is ren like maschine will host instrument channels aka vsts and midi channels aka send to the internal sampler and we can effect the sample outputs. But we have no audio channels for hosting audio tracks which we can combine signals in a group if we wish per say. But that isn't that IMPORTANT since we already have great DAWs on the market.


Call it what you want use it how you wish. But it is plugin.