Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
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By JamesJeffery Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:28 pm
Anyone still doing this? I've heard about people recording audio from vinyl/CD to cassette or VHS, and then sampling the cassette/VHS into sampler of choice.

I'm going to grab a VHS recorder tomorrow just for a bit of fun I can get one for £5. Anyone still doing this? Anything worth listening to or any videos?
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By scoobylol Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:37 pm
I think if used sparingly it would make a nice tonal texture on certain tracks. From my limited experience using my dads tape recorder (just a regular consumer Marantz portable cassette recorder) and an old VHS, it gives the mid-range more presence.

Or more accurately the bass and treble has a notable roll-off. From doing reading over the past few months as I'm looking into an open reel deck I believe that if you want a greater frequency response you need to record onto a wider format tape, at a faster speed. Something like that, as I said I'm only learning about this stuff now.

I'm not too sure about bias or types of tape either, your best bet is a dude on here named "tapedeck". Last time I had questions he had some excellent knowledge!

Also with my own VHS I noticed you couldnt just straight record sound onto the video without their being a visual signal input. You need to trick it into thinking it's watching Top of the Pops 2 before it records sound properly :lol:
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By JamesJeffery Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:45 pm
scoobylol wrote:I think if used sparingly it would make a nice tonal texture on certain tracks. From my limited experience using my dads tape recorder (just a regular consumer Marantz portable cassette recorder) and an old VHS, it gives the mid-range more presence.

Or more accurately the bass and treble has a notable roll-off. From doing reading over the past few months as I'm looking into an open reel deck I believe that if you want a greater frequency response you need to record onto a wider format tape, at a faster speed. Something like that, as I said I'm only learning about this stuff now.

I'm not too sure about bias or types of tape either, your best bet is a dude on here named "tapedeck". Last time I had questions he had some excellent knowledge!

Also with my own VHS I noticed you couldnt just straight record sound onto the video without their being a visual signal input. You need to trick it into thinking it's watching Top of the Pops 2 before it records sound properly :lol:


Ha! I remember writing "Back to Future" on a VHS as a kid and magically expecting it to be on there.

But, is the visual + audio thing the same for all VHS decks? I'd assume that most would just record nothing.

I was thinking of playing around with chops and breaks to begin with rather than doing the complete track. But, it's all a game and a learning curve, I'll probably end up sticking my penis in there to see if anything interesting happens.

What about cassette? What's the sound quality on those things?

I'm going to see if I can find that dude, and find some videos on this. Got me interested. I don't think I'll got reel-to-reel though, I've seen the price of some of those thing!
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By scoobylol Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:59 pm
Dam, you've got me thinking now. It was ages ago on a really sketchy old machine. But I'm sure I had to do something like that to get it to record sound properly. All I know is that it didn't sound great, but that was probably more down to the fact I was using really old tapes.

I still think it's worth a try. I've actually got another more recent VCR in the spare room, I'm half tempted to hook it up and have another go myself now.

Cassette for me has always been dependant on the device I used to record it. Downstairs my dad still has an expensive 70s HiFi thing that he's kept in pristine condition. It has various settings for types of tape etc... and it always produced great results.

On the portable Marantz deck I mentioned the sound always had a notable roll-off at either end. Mostly mids, and hiss. But nice hiss IMO.
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By tapedeck Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:16 am
i love guerrilla audio processing.

cassette is great to me for two reasons - effect and immediacy. in regards to the latter, i have a two track set up at all time from the tape out of the mixer and its dead easy to just reach over and hit record - no need to load programs, boot equipment, plug wires, set inputs - just click and go.

as for effect, i think the best thing to do would be try for yourself don't be afraid to go crazy with it. try soft signals, but the real hard-to-replicate tape fx comes when you drive it all a little harder than you should.
karl blau has some memorable insight when he says that "driving tape too hard can sometimes make the tape sound like hand grenades. its more forgiving than digital because when you overload digital you get unpleasant clipping but when you overdrive tape you can get something beautiful like hand grenades".
you have to watch it though because there is a fine line between tape saturation and totally losing the signal and low bass disappearing...stuff like that.

another important thing to consider is that the quality gets more complicated because its going to rely on the tape and the machine - and both come in a thousand different flavors. i mean you can get a beater tape machine that's noisy and has no low end but gives amazing crunch on snare drums, all the way to machines + tape that is quiet, clean, and adds a nice glue to the overall sound.

those 4-track cassette machines are usually a bit better because they run at higher speeds and have some sort of noise reduction happening.

i don't have much experience with vcrs, but not being able to record without a video signal sounds whack - like a weird 'feature' that some decks have.

i think the idea is that it's slightly better than cassette, but only in special cases and then, its not like worlds better. i always say, try it out, if you like it, roll with it. id love to hear some drums run to vcr real hard - do share when you get around to trying.

regarding vcr here's a blurb from the first google result i found at http://homerecording.com/vhs.html
So if you have a DAT, a good hard-disk recorder, a CD burner, a MiniDisc recorder, or anything like that, don't waste your time with VHS...use them instead! And the other thing...don't run out and buy a VCR just for this...it's not that great and you're better off saving up for a DAT or an audio card. But if you happen to have one around already...

This technique only works with HiFi VHS VCR, not with a regular VCR. HiFi VHS has excellent signal-to-noise ratio and amazing wow and flutter characteristics (for analog tape, anyway). That's because it's clocked by the video signal, and recorded with the video at the same time (it's not digital, though). The ordinary "linear" tracks are recorded separately using Dolby, but aren't much better than a regular cassette.

The only problem is that if you have a dropout, you're sunk...ever watch a rental movie and have it switch from the HiFi audio track to the linear audio track? That's a dropout and there's no way to recover from it, other than the fact that the linear tracks are still there, so you can always get your mix back from them.

Also, many inexpensive HiFi VCRs have automatic compression on the audio tracks, which means you don't set the level, it's automatic. This might be actually a good thing if you don't own a compressor, but people have reported "pumping" and other weird artifacts, so the best kind is one with an actual level control.

Anyway, the whole idea is that you do your stereo mixdown to the VCR directly. On some VCRs you have to record a video signal simultaneously or nothing will happen (just keep your antenna hooked up), and you usually have to set your VCR to "aux" or "ext" input to get the audio from your 4-track rather than from TV.


so i think it's worth trying and if it works in your set up, thats awesome. but its not for everybody.
By terry towelling Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:30 am
i used to record onto betamax video tape in the mid 80s. you can switch the machine to 'audio mode' -- it uses the whole tape to record the audio!
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By padlock Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:48 am
i used to do it for a while. agreed it makes the mid/lo-mid sound more chunky.
sounds good on drums and bass imo. it's definately a noticeable difference.
i was using a decent panasonic vcr and old tapes, im sure new tapes would be better coz they can still contain artifacts from previous recordings.

but yeh man, experiment with it, it is fun to play with!

when i was reading up on it a yr or two ago, i stumbled on info that betamax has really good audio. i have one sitting around here but never tried it out.

have fun man!
By atestarr Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:32 pm
my .02 about tape having gone a little crazy with it lately. get a pro 3-head cassette deck like a Tascam 122B, it has two speeds, xlrs in/out, Dolby B and HX Pro which are great for reducing noise. being able to recording from the repro head makes it so you can bounce to tape and back to DAW and the audio will sync with the original. tapedecks driven hard are great for tone shaping synths and drums. i also picked up an otari mx 5050 BQii 1/4'' reel to reel. the tape is 50 bucks for 30 mins at 15ips, there will always be hiss unless you get an outboard dbx unit or something. (edit) using an expander, especially in logic, can make hiss disappear. great on drums/synths, not so great on high sustained cymbals. cassette is cheap and flexible, reel to reel is great for some things but requires more maintenance/cash expenditure/knowledge. oddly, the reel to reel is the only piece of gear my girl encouraged me to buy. YMMV.
Last edited by atestarr on Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By itchyvinyl Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:34 pm
What you need is a "STEREO HI-FI" VHS machine.

It's a different format that came out toward the end of the life of VHS.
On those, the hi-fi audio had own separate stereo track (in addition to the mono/video one)...and they had stereo ins and outs.

The sound quality is better than cassette an has more headroom I think.
These are actually great to mix down to...to get a little "tape love" on your final mix.
A poor man's reel to reel.

I used to make mixtapes on these for live events, because you could have several hours of continuous music recorded with good sound quality.
By sadzik Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:07 pm
I started using casette tapedeck like half a year ago and I'm using it everytime.
with every choice of noise reduction and type of cassete you get other sounding - you can get very crunchy, or very very bright, it all depends.

IMHO it's good to use it as one of layers on drums especially - it gives some sort of punch and lo-fi sound - and sometimes on bass - more powerfull but not as clean as it should be
By tosfalma Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:19 am
few days ago, i wrote some unmixed tracks ive made on the mpc 2500 to my vcr and then sampled them back to my emu 0404 to do a comparison. if you like i can upload so you can compare the vcr sound.
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By JamesJeffery Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:46 am
tosfalma wrote:few days ago, i wrote some unmixed tracks ive made on the mpc 2500 to my vcr and then sampled them back to my emu 0404 to do a comparison. if you like i can upload so you can compare the vcr sound.


That would be brilliant mate. Would love to hear some comparisons.
By terry towelling Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:15 am
buggered if i know, mate. it's been a few years. tom ellard from severed heads put me onto the trick. maybe ask him. see if you can find a contact on his blog or website.
http://tomellard.com/wp/
http://www.sevcom.com/
if i find out the model(s) i'll let you know.

Wal Martian wrote:
terry towelling wrote:i used to record onto betamax video tape in the mid 80s. you can switch the machine to 'audio mode' -- it uses the whole tape to record the audio!

Which betamax machine allows this???
By terry towelling Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:30 am
i found a betamax machine on the side of the street this morning when walking back from a surf. it's a sony and has a big sticker on the top saying 'audio hi fi', but can't see a model number.
Last edited by terry towelling on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.