Recording to tape or VHS

Wal Martian wrote:

terry towelling wrote:i used to record onto betamax video tape in the mid 80s. you can switch the machine to 'audio mode' -- it uses the whole tape to record the audio!

Which betamax machine allows this???

None.

^^^are you sure?
this is what i found:
"Betamax has an audio-only mode which allows the entire bandwidth to be used for sound. Because the video tape machine uses a helical scanning recording head, this means higher fidelity recordings are possible compared to stationary-head audio tape recorders. "
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/format/beta/betamax.html

also, it seems that betamax (betamax sl-hf950 + PCM-701ES for example) was one of the earliest means for recording digital audio. anyway, whatever the reason, at the time (mid 80s) beta was meant to provide the best quality audio for those without access to say a 2-inch tape studer machine. i seem to remember that the betamax was used to collect sounds that were later sampled into the mirage. not as mobile as a cassette tape deck, but way better sound.

"So what is PCM? It stands for Pulse Code Modulation and refers to a partner unit which can be connected to Betamax machines (such as the PCM-701ES seen here or the PCM-F1) allowing full CD quality digital recording to be recorded on to a video tape. The unit converts audio into a video signal identical in coding to that used by CD's. In fact this method of recording was sometimes used for sending a master digital copy to the CD press. "
from: http://www.palsite.com/features.html

it seems people over at DIY Audio are still using betamax to record audio. anyway, i have no regrets leaving the betamax behind and buying a tascam dr-40 recorder. and i doubt anyone here who is after analogue tape artifacts would be interested in the betamax route as it appears to not be analogue, but digital.

Shostakovich wrote:

Wal Martian wrote:

terry towelling wrote:i used to record onto betamax video tape in the mid 80s. you can switch the machine to 'audio mode' -- it uses the whole tape to record the audio!

Which betamax machine allows this???

None.

Never thought on recording in a vcr

terry towelling wrote:^^^are you sure?
this is what i found:
"Betamax has an audio-only mode which allows the entire bandwidth to be used for sound. Because the video tape machine uses a helical scanning recording head, this means higher fidelity recordings are possible compared to stationary-head audio tape recorders. "
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/format/beta/betamax.html

Bandwith does not equal tape width. There are 3 ways of recording to Betamax / VHS.

1. analogue. this is adjacent to the video track.

2. Hi-Fi - discrete multiplexing - sounded better than analogue for sure.

3. digital using F1 type system - the analogue signal is encoded into the video track.

also, it seems that betamax (betamax sl-hf950 + PCM-701ES for example) was one of the earliest means for recording digital audio. anyway, whatever the reason, at the time (mid 80s) beta was meant to provide the best quality audio for those without access to say a 2-inch tape studer machine. i seem to remember that the betamax was used to collect sounds that were later sampled into the mirage. not as mobile as a cassette tape deck, but way better sound.

You are comparing digital recording (PCM-F1 system) to analogue (Studer). apples and oranges.

"So what is PCM? It stands for Pulse Code Modulation and refers to a partner unit which can be connected to Betamax machines (such as the PCM-701ES seen here or the PCM-F1) allowing full CD quality digital recording to be recorded on to a video tape. The unit converts audio into a video signal identical in coding to that used by CD's. In fact this method of recording was sometimes used for sending a master digital copy to the CD press. "
from: http://www.palsite.com/features.html

WAV is PCM. So many things are PCM. The unit does NOT convert audio into a video signal. It converts the audio into binary, much liek any AD. And although it could record in 16-Bit, it operated better in 14-Bit, freeing up 2 bits for error correction. And boy did they have errors! But the trade off was a wider dynamic range and obviously, no loss of data when copying.

it seems people over at DIY Audio are still using betamax to record audio. anyway, i have no regrets leaving the betamax behind and buying a tascam dr-40 recorder. and i doubt anyone here who is after analogue tape artifacts would be interested in the betamax route as it appears to not be analogue, but digital.

If you record on the analogue or Hi-Fi tracks, then it is very much analogue! Use the PCM front end and you'll be creating 1s and 0s. People still use VHS and Betamax for 3 important reasons:

1. They don't crash

2. Tape stock is relatively cheap and in LP mode, can yield up to 4 hours of recording.

3. They don't crash.

^^^so shost. did you also record with a betamax? you're not still doing it are you?
i thought they were great machines. so beautifully made. did you use the digital or hi-fi modes?

you seem to know all the techinical specs, so getting back on topic, do you think that the betamax is a good choice for those that want to use tape? it's better than cassette, right? probably easier and cheaper to maintain and run than a 1/4" reel to reel.

but maybe it's a question of what artifacts are desirable rather than what has the "better" sound.

^^^so shost. did you also record with a betamax? you're not still doing it are you?
i thought they were great machines. so beautifully made. did you use the digital or hi-fi modes?

I've worked with Betamax in the past. Wouldn't bother now. Analogue or digital.

you seem to know all the techinical specs, so getting back on topic, do you think that the betamax is a good choice for those that want to use tape? it's better than cassette, right? probably easier and cheaper to maintain and run than a 1/4" reel to reel.

I think people who don't or have never used tape don't always take into account all the aspects of working with tape. From calibrating the machine heads, to optimisign for bias etc - it seems lost on a lot of people. I also think the recording enthusiast has never had it so good. Amazing 24-Bit recording and good clocks. Even ten years ago, would have been hard to imagine.

but maybe it's a question of what artifacts are desirable rather than what has the "better" sound.

This is what it all comes down too. Better is subjective. But I think when talking about sound, "better" shuold mean accurate. And tape, though ironically analogue, is less so than digital.