For discussion about setting up your studio and advice on the gear and equipment within it.

By lo-fi Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:28 am
BRAVO wrote:Sampler = If you got the time & patience this could be the route. They have a big appitite so u gotta feed em well

Synth/module = A good option if you jus wanna turn on your sh*t and get down to it. Still requires patience tho...Programming etc


I beg to differ. What you say about synths/modules goes for S+S synths, a.k.a. ROMplers. These come with a fixed (often expandable) set of samples as starting waveforms that determine pretty much which direction the sound you're programming is going to take. I've owned a JV1080 and came to the conclusion that I hate this type of synthesis. It's great if you just want to quickly select a convincing Oboe sound and play it, but if you want all your sounds to feel like your own, you very quickly get stuck.

Analog or VA synths, as has been explained above, are different beasts altogether. The starting waveforms are not samples, but just basic waves that can be represented by mathematical formulas; square/pulse wave, sawtooth, triangle, sometimes sine. With even the most basic analog synth, the sonic possibilities are endless.

Especially if you choose a fully analog synth that doesn't have a way of storing presests (most vingage models, M3x, modulars...), you know you'll be coming with something unique every time you turn it on. In my experience, the ones without presets/full midi control sound even more 'alive' or 'organic' than the digitally controlled analogs (SE1x, pulse, Voyager, Andromeda...).

Thing is, a ROMpler will NOT sound or behave like an analog synth (even though they often try), and an analog synth can only do a handful out of the hundreds of sounds that are in a ROMpler.

ROMplers are good for emulating real instruments: realistic strings, classical instruments, Rhodes, etc. There are people that totally tweak their ROMpler's sounds, but I suspect most users just go for the presets, and adjust basic parameters like atack/release and filter settings to taste. Most romplers also have a few banks of SFX and 'analog synth sounds', but IMHO these quickly sound tired when you get too familliar with them. A good Rhodes sound is always a good Rhodes sound, but the 'analog' or SFX stuff needs to be different every time you hear it. It follows that if you're a good keyboard player, you can get a lot of milage out of a ROMpler; you just need good, playable keyboard sounds. If you're more of a 'sound tweaker', then a ROMpler will feel very limited.

A good rack sampler can do anything a rompler can, and it's infinitly expandable in the sounds department, but it's clumsy compared to the 'turn-it-on' simplicity of a ROMpler. Keeping a library takes work, and having to load everything up before you can play anything can often be enough to kill a creative spark.

Analog synths are good for bass, leads, bleeps, squelchy sounds, and all sorts of typical 'synth' sounds, including brass and strings (polyphony permitting). Programming is very direct on most analogs, with lots of knobs to tweak. There are no samples inside, so in theory can turn any sound into any other sound by just turning knobs. Analogs invite you to tweak your sounds. Many (older) models don't have presets, so you just have to turn knobs to get a different sound. If you're a 'sound tweaker', you can use a good analog for 20 years and not get bored with it.

VA synths do everything Analog synths do, and often lots more, but IMHO don't sound quite as good as a good true analog (some get very close though). If you need 'analog' sounds, but you also need the polyphony, then VA is the way to go. If monophonic will do, go for a true analog. If it's a good one it will keep it's value.

FM synths are good for some types of bass sounds, bells, 'metallic' sounds, shimmery pads, and abstract, other-worldly SFX. They are without exeption a b*tch to program (without a software editor), but they are also very cheap. You can get a decent FM synth s/h for $100 - $200.

Then there is wavetable synthesis, and additive synthesis, and granular...
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:25 pm
beetjunkeeee wrote:yo smoove, u gott any live instruments? if not then u should at least put some thought into it. like a guitar, or trumpet or like trombone or even a bass or a piano, or better yet, DRUMS !!! (really excited bout gettin mine).....u know, lil sumn sum
but i do understand the whole wanting to get a synth.... but a bass REEEAAALLLYYY helped me along my journey



aight yall i aint been on in a few days and i got a lot of replies to catch up on lol so ill try my best.

yea i have a guitar. i really love that thing. always have. yea that sounds like an idea. i would like a piano but theres no way a piano is fitting in my little ass apt ! lol

everyone who posted had very valid points. i appreciate everyone who posted and i've read thru most of this. i plan on finishing in the next few minutes. theres so much to reply to im kinda stuck till later. but im glad to see others sparked convo thru my post. hope this helps others too. cause it definately helped me.

yall the best. get up wit these lata. peace 8)
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:32 pm
lo-fi wrote:Think about what you want. It sounds you just want to spend some money on a new piece of gear. I mean c'mon, you must have SOME idea of what you need the gear for?

- What kind of sounds do you want?
- What kind of sounds do you want?
- What kind of sounds do you want?
- What kind of working method are you looking for?
- Do you want something analog, a VA or an S+S synth?
- Do you need a lot of polyphony?
- Do you need a lot of presets/user memories?

Ask yourself these things and you'll narrow your shortlist down to 3 or 4 specific units.


i thought i did say what kinda sounds i wanted. naw i dont have money just to spend on new gear. i NEED new gear lol. i really do. its that time! let me put it this way......

the old rap-a-lot records tracks (scarface) used lots of synthesized sounds. i love the sound and feel their tracks have. i like that kind of sound/instruments. i also would love some nice thick sounding piano/rhodes/wurlitzer type sounds to work with. i tend to make smooth sounding music and those would go perfect. but i dont want to limit myself to just those. i would love to be able to get those along with some other nice sounding instruments. but if they do offer some nice pianos, i can go with that. hope this helps. im not sure how else to explain it lo-fi. thanks though..


by the way, im still readin thru this but i learned so much from this one post. love this site. thanks :)
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:36 pm
ntalec wrote:I think you're sleepin on reality.
NO MATTER what module you buy and whatever expansion it has
YOU WILL grow tired of it.
Kinda like buying a drum machine with 200 sounds, one day you will be tired of them.


your absolutely right. but this is how it is for me....

i've bought sample cd's and listened to the sounds on the module i first got....when i go thru the sounds as soon as i hear one that i like a beat automatically pops into my head that second!!! and i end up creating a track using that sound. i know i will grow tired of it, but i NEED one!! I been usin this same module for i dont know how long and its time for a change!! If i can get my hands on some new sounds, im back in business. trust :)
User avatar

By BRAVO Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:39 pm
@ lo-fi

My reference was in its simplest form...Module OR synth still has a basis to work from.
Turn on a s5000 and you have.....Power, but thats it :wink:
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:40 pm
BRAVO wrote:Yor head must be swollen by now... "Get this....get that" - Lol!

Sampler = If you got the time & patience this could be the route. They have a big appitite so u gotta feed em well

Synth/module = A good option if you jus wanna turn on your sh*t and get down to it. Still requires patience tho...Programming etc

I'd say if you aint got at least one beast (module) in your arsenal, you should get one 1st then perhaps cop a sampler. Im sure most of us got modules to compliment our MPC's 1st for bread & butter (i know I did)

Bravo


lol!!! thats how i feel right now.

i had a question....i keep hearing about samplers. so the samplers dont actually come with sounds right? you have to use your own sounds correct? i would just be able to sample and edit the sounds? just curious. i wanted to know how exactly i would benefit from buying a sampler. i never was too crazy about gettin one because i knew the mpc had a "sampler" on it. (i guess you can call it a sampler) and it did what it needed to do (so far). i might be missing the meaning of sampler, so thats why im askin! thanks yall! hope yall dont get tired of me. i gotta learn too! you know? :)
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:43 pm
BRAVO wrote:Yor head must be swollen by now... "Get this....get that" - Lol!

Sampler = If you got the time & patience this could be the route. They have a big appitite so u gotta feed em well

Synth/module = A good option if you jus wanna turn on your sh*t and get down to it. Still requires patience tho...Programming etc

I'd say if you aint got at least one beast (module) in your arsenal, you should get one 1st then perhaps cop a sampler. Im sure most of us got modules to compliment our MPC's 1st for bread & butter (i know I did)

Bravo


im feelin this bravo. you've provided some valuable information. i think i might wait on the sampler thing. like you said - module if i just wanna turn my stuff on and get down. which im known to do 8)
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:46 pm
ntalec wrote:Really comes down to are you trying sculpt some new sounds or are you just after the sounds you are hearing in other songs.
If you go with a module it's like listening to the radio, you may like what you hear but have a limited amount of control.
A sampler is more like making a mixtape, you control what goes on the CD.
If you feel you need something new, you won't be happy until you get something new.
Regardless of whether or not it helps your creative nature.


i wouldnt exactly say im after sounds i hear in other sounds because im not trying to sound like other people. i hope im not coming across that way. but i have heard some niiiice sounds before that i would love to get my hands on. even though a module i cop might have the same sounds on the radio, ill be creating something from my mind. it wont be like their music. it'll be mine. ill do my own thang, so im not too concerned about sounding like the radio. you digg?

By cooocooo1 Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:49 pm
From what I've heard of your music I honestly think the Mo rack would compliment your style and sound best. Nice pianos and rhodes sounds, I understand what these cats is sayin about samplers but if you're lookin for instant inspiration and gratification I think the Mo will leave you very happy.

I agree that a powerful sampler will shit on the romplers but it costs money, if you want the strings that mash a romplers strings you're gonna pay about as much as a rompler for em.
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:24 pm
question

whats up with the planet phatt?

waste of time/money?

just curious

By ntalec Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:27 pm
Sounds like to me what you need is a full function sampler and a sh*tload of vinyl.

Most of that Scarface stuff was sampled grooves
Last edited by ntalec on Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

By binger0 Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:28 pm
yup. and i just happen to have an esi 2000 for sale 8)
User avatar

By Smoove03 Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:41 pm
i can digg what you sayin. and i aint know most of the stuff was sampled. i knew a bunch of it was though....

but i aint the sampling type like that. i dont sample much. the high i get from making beats is when im creating my own melody. i love that part!!!

the two favorite parts of makin a beat to me is creating the bassline and the melody
User avatar

By saintjoe Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:06 pm
well, it's seems to me, you are like me, you want instant sounds, turn on and play, i thought about getting a sampler cuz you can buy multisampled cd's with whatever sounds you want and put them in, you can go through all the sounds and play like you can with a module, which is what i do
go through and hit a few keys to see what i like

from your response, i think right now you should look at a module
you don't have to break the bank on one, jus get a simple joint that got multiple sounds, the roland, kurzwiel, mophatt(planett phatt is the same, mabey a lil older), them type joints

some say the mophatt is wack but i think it is still usable, all things get old but it will be new to you and your set up, and if you get one of those you can prolly buy some type of rom expansion to get the synth type sounds, or some more keys,

get you a module yo, i think i got a good handle on your style and a new module will spark mad tracks for you, you already got drums galore and lil riffs and whatnot, and you said you love to play your melodies, get you a module :wink:

By ntalec Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:12 pm
Just because I say vinyl I am not talking Kanye, I'm talking more about creating sounds to play your grooves.
I been reading your replies and probably the best thing for you would be a used Motif rack.
You should be able to get one for $650-700 easy and it does let you manipulate the sound a lot.
Also sound beefier than the Korg's.