Standalone vs Non-Standalone

tapedeck wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:It could be spun any way!

TRUTH!

i want bring up a couple things you mention -
you say 'well most people already have computers' - yes you're right. but that's my point. my mpc is an mpc and thats it. it only does that and every single resistor inside it was put there with the sole purpose of making it an mpc.
the brains of an mpc ren is also a word processor, dvd player, gaming console, email checker, etc etc etc and every component inside has to work on a 'lowest common denominator' type of scenario and like i said, this lowest level is HUGE and pretty sketchy in modern day computing tech.
also yea people 'might' have a computer already but is it really capable of running a software-based hardware platform? i would say there is no answer to this because the possibilities are literally infinite.

Yeah, I feel you, but they can't just NOT get into this area of the market based on that. A lot of people feel SUV's are soccer mom wagons, but BMW still put there sporty "heritage" aside so-to-speak, and tapped into that market, and just threw their twist on it.

tapedeck wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:I don't think there is enough demand for a product like that today. And to survive as a company, they have to go where the money is

you are totally right here.
but please allow me to posit the possibility that this 'demand' is, as much as it is user consumer driven, manufacturer driven.
yer right, akai could not survive making dope samplers. the skilled producers who use these machines are too few and far between. but eeeevveerybody wants that. this is why numark is so genius/evil - they simply bought that reputation, and flipped it into an image to sell and now look, slowly the actual product has literally evaporated out of the machines themselves and look what are they selling - a maschine with the name 'mpc' on it.
they are literally selling a dead box with the name mpc on it.
oh yea hook it up to your computer (if you have one, if it works)...see now its an mpc )
edit: this is why i just wish they wouldn't call it an mpc.

they're selling an image more than anything. the advertising budget obviously dwarfs the hardware support (5k users where are you? god bless jj.) and what's in those ads....image.

so yes, to survive as a giant, mass-profit, selfish corporation, they have to go where the money is. the real ingenuity is not happening at these big guys anyway - look at midines or vallixi os or wtpa sampler or x0xb0x or zvex - these are all little companies, making great products but probably not making the same stacks because their resources go more into making the product dope than convincing us that we need the new product just cause it's new.

I really don't care what they call it. And I don't feel like I was convinced or brainwashed into thinking I needed this. I actually DO need it. It's why I bought a Maschine. I love my 2500, but it was just becoming really inefficient as far as editing my notes and timing in the step editor, since you can only tweak one note at a time; and as far as the whole process of tracking out and mixing since you are limited to 8 channels at once. I can make a dope beat on anything. So computer or no computer really makes no difference. But as far the actual editing and making a finished product, I think I out grew the hardware only shit for those two simple reasons. So the Ren is exactly what I needed. The computer integration, for me, is the ONLY thing I feel my 2500 lacks. All that gimmicky 3000 circuitry bullshit is meaningless to me, personally. I think that's just thrown in there to try to entice the old school/hardware guys to cross over. I could care less. My 2500 sounds just fine to me!

But what I sense from you, and I don't mean to put incorrect words in your mouth at all, is that you feel that just because it is computer integrated that it won't be any good or that it will be less than any previous MPC. It's a very high possibility that it won't live up to the hype and may be a let down. But at the end of the day, we don't really know that for sure. They might pull it off. No one really knows for sure yet. I don't really see how it will be hard for them to transfer classic MPC "tightness" from an internal motherboard/processor to an external one. Isn't it just simple code, that perhaps no other company has mastered?

I don't really believe that they went into this part of the market just out of greed or for money. It's just simply the way things are headed. They really don't have a choice frankly. There is plenty of hardware MPC's for people that need them. But for people that need software integration, like I do, there is nothing from Akai available. And dudes want more than just an MPD.

tapedeck wrote:wow - having a legitimate conversation is refreshing - thank yall

Word, I know right?! Especially without anyone getting but hurt and offensive! It's not that serious! It's like sports! I don't see how people can get emotionally upset over sports and be ready to fight (unless they got money on a game)! That shit is ridiculous! That team that loses is still getting paid millions of dollars to play, and not one of them sons-a-bitches would give a rats ass when you get laid off! Sorry for the OT!

inthemix wrote:I've been hammering Maschine this week and on a few occasions the timing has glitched and missed a beat. Almost like a record jumping.


You too, Coz ... I've had this and thought it was something I was doing with the unit somehow to affect it ?

You guys need to turn the porn sites off in the background while operating Maschine! J/K! This is weird! I haven't noticed this. I'm gonna ask Ex if he has!

props HF respect to your way of working even if it's different than mine. we obviously approach things a different way.

DJ Hellfire wrote:But what I sense from you, and I don't mean to put incorrect words in your mouth at all, is that you feel that just because it is computer integrated that it won't be any good or that it will be less than any previous MPC.

let me clarify that this is not at all where im coming from - i am sure this will work for a lot of people - im just pointing out the reliability of standalone vs. software based. i dont feel it will be any 'less' than any mpc because as far as i see... its apples and oranges...cant even compare. i do feel like there will be more bugs / kinks having a device like this run smoothly.
i did derail a bit into the whole reasoning behind making a move like this but that's just my view and probably a little too philosophical .

i do still feel like without the computer its just a big dead box ... and there are many more options for software / dead box hardware in respects to that, so im not buying into slappin the mpc name on it and letting that carry it. the addition of ins/outs is nice but i dont know if it's enough...i dont have a laptop that i can nor would i want to take to a live gig which i do a lot.

props to them for making it, props to those who are wanting it, im just trying to keep a healthy distance from all the hype and re-realising why i love the xl.

tapedeck wrote:props HF respect to your way of working even if it's different than mine. we obviously approach things a different way.

DJ Hellfire wrote:But what I sense from you, and I don't mean to put incorrect words in your mouth at all, is that you feel that just because it is computer integrated that it won't be any good or that it will be less than any previous MPC.

let me clarify that this is not at all where im coming from - i am sure this will work for a lot of people - im just pointing out the reliability of standalone vs. software based. i dont feel it will be any 'less' than any mpc because as far as i see... its apples and oranges...cant even compare. i do feel like there will be more bugs / kinks having a device like this run smoothly.
i did derail a bit into the whole reasoning behind making a move like this but that's just my view and probably a little too philosophical .

i do still feel like without the computer its just a big dead box ... and there are many more options for software / dead box hardware in respects to that, so im not buying into slappin the mpc name on it and letting that carry it. the addition of ins/outs is nice but i dont know if it's enough...i dont have a laptop that i can nor would i want to take to a live gig which i do a lot.

props to them for making it, props to those who are wanting it, im just trying to keep a healthy distance from all the hype and re-realising why i love the xl.

Oh ok! I see what you're saying! I think there's definitely gonna be more bugs, probably a lot! Especially with the fact that damn near every computer is different. However, I doubt it will be any worse of a situation than what's already available, ie for people already integrated with computers. I felt similar to you a few years ago. I just didn't like the idea of making beats on a computer and refused to do it, even though I had Reason and used it as a sound module. I just never liked any sequencer other than the MPC. Then about a year, shortly after Reason 5 came out, the Kong interested me. So I said **** it and tried it out. And I actually loved it. And Reason is VERY easy to use. I don't think I read the user manual once! Reason's sequencer is actually really tight, similar to an MPC and the midi editing is probably the most efficient I've ever used, even better than Pro Tools and Maschine. Plus the 64 channels of tracking in rewire. The quantize isn't quite as good though because it lacks the earliness/lateness feature which I use religiously on my MPC. So I made a good bit of joints on Reason last year. Then decided to try Maschine a few months ago, and I'm loving that as well. But still always missing my MPC. But everytime I go back to the MPC, I just feel so limited and tracking feels like a chore! So I'm hoping Akai can create the best of all 3 worlds with this shit!

its funny i actually went backwards from you - trackers, og fruity loops (when it was just loops), logic 5 on windows, and when reason 2 dropped i actually used it as my main workstation for damn near a year....cubase, nuendo (pretty cool), etc etc.
then when i got the mpc kind of on a whim cause i found one cheap, i never planned on it, but i never looked back. i was crashing reason a lot cause i made pretty heavily stacked/split racks that would always tax the computer, hitting the performance brickwall even faster with vsts .... then i got the mpc and i could literally have like, all 64 pads in all programs firing off at once at 96ppqn - and it would keep chugging along nicely (polyphony aside)...
i have since come to respect that ability to take it right up to the edge and still feel like yer running but you (almost*) never fall off. a computer doesn't put those hard limits on you, it just lets you run fast as shit without knowing there is an edge there, then the sand just starts to slowly give way before you know what's going on.

anyway, i just appreciate that about well designed hardware.
i should also mention i have a talent for crashing computers just by walking in the room.
(*i have crashed my mpc before and that is always a treat)

As powerful as my computers are, none of them are as tight or reliable as any of my MPC's fact!

tapedeck wrote::mrgreen:
its funny i actually went backwards from you - trackers, og fruity loops (when it was just loops), logic 5 on windows, and when reason 2 dropped i actually used it as my main workstation for damn near a year....cubase, nuendo (pretty cool), etc etc.
then when i got the mpc kind of on a whim cause i found one cheap, i never planned on it, but i never looked back. i was crashing reason a lot cause i made pretty heavily stacked/split racks that would always tax the computer, hitting the performance brickwall even faster with vsts .... then i got the mpc and i could literally have like, all 64 pads in all programs firing off at once at 96ppqn - and it would keep chugging along nicely (polyphony aside)...
i have since come to respect that ability to take it right up to the edge and still feel like yer running but you (almost*) never fall off. a computer doesn't put those hard limits on you, it just lets you run fast as shit without knowing there is an edge there, then the sand just starts to slowly give way before you know what's going on.

anyway, i just appreciate that about well designed hardware.
i should also mention i have a talent for crashing computers just by walking in the room.
(*i have crashed my mpc before and that is always a treat)

I see! Yeah, man, I've been all hardware since the late 90's. Only been having a computer in the lab since late 08! Only been actually using it for production for a year. But coming up, I was in a group with 9 other ****, and we all had to record into a little Roland 8 track recorder below. And one of those tracks had to be for the beat! So I guess you can say I'm really appreciative of as much computer technology they can come up with!

If you guys/gals were buying "new" standalone hardware samplers over the past 5 years, perhaps we would have "new" hardware samplers being sold today (I purchased 3). There hasn't been a huge market for "new" hardware samplers. No company is making an MPC 6000 or MV-9000 type-product. Get over it. There are plenty of second-hand MPCs and MVs on eBay. You can still buy a new MPC 1000 and 5000 if you like.

JAH wrote:If you guys/gals were buying "new" standalone hardware samplers over the past 5 years, perhaps we would have "new" hardware samplers being sold today (I purchased 3). There hasn't been a huge market for "new" hardware samplers. No company is making an MPC 6000 or MV-9000 type-product. Get over it. There are plenty of second-hand MPCs and MVs on eBay. You can still buy a new MPC 1000 and 5000 if you like.

I rarely agree with Jah but he is right on this one. There are plenty and within a year plenty more mpcs on the market (not mine) to keep hardware users happy for the next 10 yrs second hand.

DJ Hellfire wrote:You guys need to turn the porn sites off in the background while operating Maschine! J/K!

If I'd been crackin' one off I would be the first to admit it, but I keep my computer porn free!


I'll have to dig into the settings to make sure I have everything set up right...

standalone is a non issue most peeps use mpcs in they studio

i know some peeps say they wanna make a beat in an empty room with no windows or computer and be off the grid but come on now.

u dun know 9 outta 10 times u make a beat ur computer is just there so it aint no issue.

dont like it get a 5000 or a 2500 or a 4k i mean u got options so dont see why peeps would make an issue outta this.

JAH wrote:If you guys/gals were buying "new" standalone hardware samplers over the past 5 years, perhaps we would have "new" hardware samplers being sold today (I purchased 3). There hasn't been a huge market for "new" hardware samplers. No company is making an MPC 6000 or MV-9000 type-product. Get over it. There are plenty of second-hand MPCs and MVs on eBay. You can still buy a new MPC 1000 and 5000 if you like.

But in fairness we've had the following recently or coming soon:

Electron Octatrack
Teenage Engineering OP-1
Korg Microsampler
Roland SPD-SX
Roland SP404SX which wasn't more than a couple of years ago
There's a few other products which include sampling capabilities too

While I agree there's probably not a market for big MV style all-in-one solutions. I still think the standalone, portable market is wide open.

Thought I'd chime in because, yes- I've said before that I take my 1000 on our annual beach vacations....as in, YES I work on things while out of town at the beach...

NO, you damn goobers, I do not take it down to the literal beach and kick it in the sand and try to look cool. Even if the 1000 were battery powered, I would not want sand inside the guts (also why humpin' on the beach is iffy )

Someone please find that damn pic of the dude on the beach cause it'd fit nicely in here.


Now, that said....would a standalone mode in the ren make it that much more enticing for folks like me that are on the fence? Sure...but even I've realized its size would keep me from taking it around to other studios/friends' setups. It would be nice to be able to do this without taking a laptop or worrying about "does he have that software on his machine?" but even then...I don't think I'd lug it around with me at this point.

Currently, as far as the new mpc range goes- my main gripe is that the fly isn't compatible with the first ipad... for traveling purposes ofcourse.

If anything the MPC Studio should've had the ability to run in a basic none VST standalone mode with samples saved on a micro sd card.

That would also be cool....but not gonna happen.