Do you miss layer 4?

I do. Having these old multisample-pgms and needing to adjust layers individually is bit of a pain.

On a related note: I'm also curious about the potentials of pad layer crossfade. Haven't given much thought how one could make the most of it.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've used layers.

The thing is, I do a fair bit of layering, but I prefer to have more control over the layers (as far as programming filters, ADSR, etc., but also in terms of sequencing), so I use simult pads much more.

i can totally see how old multisample pgms can be frustrating -4th layer.

for my use however i do not miss it. you can get up to 12 layers via simult and velocity layers. EDITING THESE WILL BE A PAIN, ie if you need to detune them all .56 semitone, prepare for an AKAI OS 1.07 era clickety clack session. but it's still possible when necessary.

usually 3 layers per most drum is ok for me. if i'm lucky enough to chop more out of a break, i put them on another pad.

i defer to vsti for all multisample requirements. the ease of vast, good/neutral sounding, expressive preset instrument libraries beats any chromatic pgm i could hack together in the MPC.

now on the flip side, chop a sample and build a PGM/module out of it? mpc, every time. it's the ultimate percussive oneshot sampler that also happens to have an awesome sequencer.

edit, in my opinion, aside from certain live performances, more than a small handful of velocity layers are not necessary/helpful for building a good drum track. you hear about some of these awesome drum vsti like addictive drums or others that have 16 velocity layers? that's a degree of precision that i certainly do not require, and i really do like modelling a good set of acoustic drums.

[quote="Nym"]

EDITING THESE WILL BE A PAIN, ie if you need to detune them all .56 semitone, prepare for an AKAI OS 1.07 era clickety clack session.

Thnx for input. It's true that VSTs offer more flexibility in these cases and now that I think more about it, 4 layers just for legacy reasons is kinda pointless. As said, simult pad offer this and much more.

I don't miss it either but if the cycle function was introduced I think it would be a good idea to reintroduce it.

Nym wrote:i can totally see how old multisample pgms can be frustrating -4th layer.

As we all had to learn to survive JJ you have to know when to let go and move your methods forward.
He's done a pretty consistent job of making what you gain worth what you lose.

Nym wrote:i defer to vsti for all multisample requirements. the ease of vast, good/neutral sounding, expressive preset instrument libraries beats any chromatic pgm i could hack together in the MPC.

I kinda agree and disagree with this at the same time.
The key is finding the method that allows you to create good useable source material for the 1k to use.
I got in the habit of sounds on the computer that are polished enough to sound good in the 1k as a multi.
The simplicity of XL's workflow makes working out ideas pretty fast and easy if I already have built good samples.
I normally just make the octave or scale I plan to use.

My problem with the 1k always has been the polyphony so what I do is try to make sure that what I do in the 1k is useable and just lock the 1k to Maschine/LIVE to finish.
Works better than tracking out to PT then wanting to make changes.

Most of my ideas originate on one of the MPs and this helps them be more than just scratch tracks.

Nym wrote:edit, in my opinion, aside from certain live performances, more than a small handful of velocity layers are not necessary/helpful for building a good drum track. you hear about some of these awesome drum vsti like addictive drums or others that have 16 velocity layers? that's a degree of precision that i certainly do not require, and i really do like modelling a good set of acoustic drums.

I still find sample variations on different pads to to work better than layers, in both hardware and software.
Any layering I do will be from a different device or program so that it's really adding something different.

All in all there's probably only a small level of people who would really miss the 4th layer.

I dunno... resampling seems to work well enough for me to work around 3/4 layers. I would use SIMULT, but you can chew through polyphony way too fast. However with resampling I do feel like I over commit a little too often from time to time.

Your mileage may vary.