Is the REN doomed to fail in the market?

JAH wrote: There are no VSTs on the market that can load projects from any MPC and play them back correctly.

This gonna be a critical aspect for Akai.
In the past when they have said a new model opened a past model it has been with major disclaimers and lost functionality.

The question will be if it opens them a retains them in their entirety.

If I open something from my 4k will I have to re-map anything?
If I open something from my 5k how will it address the synth or Arp if they were used?
Will it handle all the 4k's modulations?

Or will they do the classic of dropping of things specific to a given model MPC?

That's the real question in regards to this feature.

JAH wrote:I think if Akai just released a software VST they would have done well if done right. There are no VSTs on the market that can load projects from any MPC and play them back correctly. This would eliminate syncing and multi-tracking your MPC into a DAW.

Yeah, I guess. Although us JJOS users would likely be left in the dust!

scoobylol wrote:1. Also most people on here make loop-based music which lasts around 3 minutes, it's really not that much of a burden on our lives to have to track things out.

2. Also, you will still have to track out from the Ren if you want to use the 3000 gain stage circuitry or whatever has gone into it.

1. Still, when you use a lot of sounds in a beat, it's a PITA to track with 8-outs. Most of my beats are at least 12-17 different sounds, most of which are usually stereo. So most my beats take 2-3 passes to track every instrument, which makes it hard to do live pad mutes and drops. I don't think I can do a single pass track out with any of my beats on the 2500. And it takes almost an hour to track a beat. With Maschine's 32 individual outs, it takes me 10-15 minutes. And this allows me to do all my mutes and drops live in one complete performance.

2. Not really a concern for me! I've been doing fine for 15 years without the 3000 "sound"!

ntalec wrote:

JAH wrote: There are no VSTs on the market that can load projects from any MPC and play them back correctly.

This gonna be a critical aspect for Akai.
In the past when they have said a new model opened a past model it has been with major disclaimers and lost functionality.

The question will be if it opens them a retains them in their entirety.

If I open something from my 4k will I have to re-map anything?
If I open something from my 5k how will it address the synth or Arp if they were used?
Will it handle all the 4k's modulations?

Or will they do the classic of dropping of things specific to a given model MPC?

That's the real question in regards to this feature.

Nearly every model MPC uses a different program or project format. So its impossible for projects on one MPC to translate perfectly to another. Some MPCs have multiple LFOs and/or multiple Filters (MPC 4000 and 2500). The MPC 5000 doesn't have these capabilities so its possible that loading music created on these legacy MPCs will not sound exactly the same. I don't see this changing. The MPC Ren will most likely just ignore parameters from legacy MPCs that it doesn't have.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

JAH wrote:I think if Akai just released a software VST they would have done well if done right. There are no VSTs on the market that can load projects from any MPC and play them back correctly. This would eliminate syncing and multi-tracking your MPC into a DAW.

Yeah, I guess. Although us JJOS users would likely be left in the dust!

JJOS users can just keep doing what they are doing as Akai is not obligated to support an unofficial software product. Besides, the JJ OS users in this forum appear not to be interested in anything new coming from Akai out of a sense of loyalty to JJ. They believe that it will put JJ out of business...and some are actually afraid new Akai products will have features found only in the JJ OS.

JAH wrote:JJOS users can just keep doing what they are doing as Akai is not obligated to support an unofficial software product. Besides, the JJ OS users in this forum appear not to be interested in anything new coming from Akai out of a sense of loyalty to JJ. They believe that it will put JJ out of business...and some are actually afraid new Akai products will have features found only in the JJ OS.

Yeah, I know it sucks. I'm a JJ user and disagree with those guys. I think it's ridiculous to think it will put JJ out of business. The old MPC's are still gonna be around. Also, Akai making a new MPC that can read JJOS format ain't gonna put JJ out of business no faster than the fact that there likely won't be another hardware platform for JJOS to create for anyway. And who knows, he may be able to make a hack for the MPC software. As far as how I feel, JJ will be out of business sooner or later anyway with the 1000/2500. I mean, how much farther can he really take them? Might as well make money selling secrets to Akai.

Coz wrote:

kday wrote:Right now, Ren is smashing the competition IMHO.

The Ren ain't smashing ****!

It's not out till August so come back then and your statement may have a slight grain of truth to it.

You're f**king dumb!

Who said something about the Ren being out?

I'm talking features, you must have flunked middle school to be missing a brain. lol

ruh-roh raggy! looks like another poster like monsta

kday wrote:I'm talking features

I've designed my own software and controller... It's got double the features of the Ren, plus the controller has 32 qlinks, the pads of the 2KXL adapted with 5 different coloured lights underneath, plus it has waveform editing AND it can be used standalone. It comes out in July for $1298.

So my freind, by your own definition it is ME that is "smashing the competition".

I will accept your apology in advance.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

scoobylol wrote:1. Also most people on here make loop-based music which lasts around 3 minutes, it's really not that much of a burden on our lives to have to track things out.

2. Also, you will still have to track out from the Ren if you want to use the 3000 gain stage circuitry or whatever has gone into it.

1. Still, when you use a lot of sounds in a beat, it's a PITA to track with 8-outs. Most of my beats are at least 12-17 different sounds, most of which are usually stereo. So most my beats take 2-3 passes to track every instrument, which makes it hard to do live pad mutes and drops. I don't think I can do a single pass track out with any of my beats on the 2500. And it takes almost an hour to track a beat. With Maschine's 32 individual outs, it takes me 10-15 minutes. And this allows me to do all my mutes and drops live in one complete performance.

2. Not really a concern for me! I've been doing fine for 15 years without the 3000 "sound"!

I understand what you're saying it's not always ideal, sometimes I've used my mixer to buss similar sounds together in that situation before going into Ableton. But in the grand scheme of things tracking out has been part of our lives since the day we invested in our MPCs, and it's really not that huge a deal. Particularly, as I said before, as tracking out will still be part of the Ren if you intend to use all of it's circuitry. Real-time is a part of our lives. Sampling vinyl is in real-time. Recording instruments is real-time.

My main point really is that personally I dont find the concept of a $1200 MIDI controller with some custom software very exciting. I've maintained this view of hybrids since day one. I think they're an interim measure until the technology becomes small and cheap enough for another generation of standalones.

scoobylol wrote:My main point really is that personally I dont find the concept of a $1200 MIDI controller with some custom software very exciting.

I personally wouldn't spend 1 minute of my time talking about something I am not excited about. That's 1 minute I can be talking about something I am excited about.

That's a good attitude to have Jah, and I respect you for it.

I simply like to discuss the pros and cons (as I see them) of products that get brought up on here. It's part of the past-time I love to keep up with new gear, even if I don't want to invest in it.

Hell Nah it ain't doomed. We all know deep down inside that the day it goes for sale peeps will be acting like its black friday and cyber monday again !!

JAH wrote:

scoobylol wrote:My main point really is that personally I dont find the concept of a $1200 MIDI controller with some custom software very exciting.

I personally wouldn't spend 1 minute of my time talking about something I am not excited about. That's 1 minute I can be talking about something I am excited about.

per your logic - you are very excited about scoob not being excited about it?


on the real though - it aint gonna go anywhere positive if you start to try and tell somebody what they can and cant talk about.

scoobylol wrote:I understand what you're saying it's not always ideal, sometimes I've used my mixer to buss similar sounds together in that situation before going into Ableton. But in the grand scheme of things tracking out has been part of our lives since the day we invested in our MPCs, and it's really not that huge a deal. Particularly, as I said before, as tracking out will still be part of the Ren if you intend to use all of it's circuitry. Real-time is a part of our lives. Sampling vinyl is in real-time. Recording instruments is real-time.

My main point really is that personally I dont find the concept of a $1200 MIDI controller with some custom software very exciting. I've maintained this view of hybrids since day one. I think they're an interim measure until the technology becomes small and cheap enough for another generation of standalones.

Yeah, real-time is important. I just prefer to do it all in one pass so I can get an entire performance using all instruments at the same time.

Also, people keep saying "$1200 midi controller", but you are also getting physical audio and midi i/o for the $1200, which is not available on any other "midi controller" on the planet, unless you're talking about a $5000 Meko. You're getting basically the same i/o that comes on a base model XL or 2000 classic. That's where the extra $$$ comes from. This is why the Studio is half the price, because Studio is in-fact just a midi controller.

DJ Hellfire wrote:Yeah, real-time is important. I just prefer to do it all in one pass so I can get an entire performance using all instruments at the same time.

Also, people keep saying "$1200 midi controller", but you are also getting physical audio and midi i/o for the $1200, which is not available on any other "midi controller" on the planet. You're getting basically the same i/o that comes on a base model XL or 2000 classic. That's where the extra $$$ comes from. This is why the Studio is half the price, because Studio is in-fact just a midi controller.

I'd wager that most people who would consider spending that much money already have an audio interface of sorts. I wouldn't consider the Ren an entry level product afterall, it's the new flagship model. Also as you've mentioned yourself if you're doing everything in the box in a Maschine-esque fashion then surely the ins/outs are redundant to a point?

And I mean really, the same ins/outs from a machine made in '97? No idea who's supplying Akai but I will find them components at half the price if they need to mark-up the Ren that much haha.

Honestly, I just don't see what the fuss is about Hell. Call it an MPD XL and stop trying to cash in on a moniker that died with the 5000 IMO.