The reason it's not standalone! Technically speaking.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Ill-Green wrote:Akai could've made an MPC as just a hardware sampler/sequencer then put all that DAW power into the software so its less juice for the CPU, but they putted it all on the software. To make a hybrid you have to make both with their own job. Hardware for sampling and sound and software for VSTs and DAW.

In order to do it right in 2012, they have to make it better than an SP606 from 2005. It would have to be fully functional in both standalone and software modes, which I can't see as being affordable for many current MPC customers.

Thats what I forgot to mention, SP-606 is very inferior to any MPC, for example 8 polyphony and 4 track sequencer. It was $799.00 back then . Now imagine if that was done to the MPC, I would figure it would be around $2400.00 or more.

mr_debauch wrote:^ your guess is as good as mine, but let's assume we'd have to pay out the a$$..

I think it would have been cool, but i'll be honest here... I am not looking at the ren seriously at this point because I dont see justification for dropping that much on what that offers me.. yes we get classic mpc workflow, but the thing is.. I dont mind other workflows. I have classic mpc workflow on classic mpcs... I have new power on new software. I dont mind using a mouse, I dont need another interface (I just gave away an m-audio)

.. BUT, you and I both are mpc fans, we may not sleep with ours like someone I wont mention... but still, when we see a new product with MPC written on it, we are all about finding out more. Like I said, I wont be likely to get one but you know I am watching out for the product.

but to back your point... where is the power coming from in our studios for the most part? Our computers.. you stated why above quite nicely... it only makes sense for akai to make a piece of gear to harness that power. The only reason why anyone even wonders why this ren is not standalone is because of the word MPC in the name.

LMAO!

mr_debauch wrote:Oh, but if they did want to include VST pluggins in a hardware machine the technology has been available for years now and would likely not cost nearly as much to produce these days with some budget in the programming department (which they need to do in order to release a hardware mpc anyways)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsKJEJAYIYU


not sure how great it would be, but im just saying for argument sake that it would be possible.

OK, just finished watching that video. And although you don't have the GUI of the plugin, it would have been NICE if Akai had included something like that internally. Couple issues though. They don't mention how much storage space is available to house all your large VST sound libraries. Also, he says the thing has a processor that is equivalent to a 2GHz CPU being that it has no OS. That ain't shit. My CPU is 2.4GHz x4 stock. And I don't know how RAM usage on a computer equates to processor usage on the V-Box as far as what VI's use, but I know there are some VI's that can use up to 4GB on it's own depending on how you layer parts. But all in all, I guess it would be better than nothing.

Second issue is that thing runs for over $500US. Although it has a built in interface, it's now 4 years later and the version Akai would include would be superior to what this thing could do, so it's probably safe to keep the addition of this feature around $500.

So now after adding $500 worth of VST box in the Ren, we are up to $1799. Next issue is we need a motherboard/CPU, hard drive bay, CF, some ram, and an Akai effects unit (like the EB-16 or equivalent), and possibly 8 outs to accommodate those that just don't wanna use a computer. Sounds like at least another $1000 to me.

Is all that really worth doubling the cost?

^ I dont know.. doubling the price would for sure be a topic around here though... who knows how it would translate to the outside world.

I think it would have been cool, but I think it would boil down to how much mirroring of features you already have the capability to run would you do.. know what I mean?

The open labs is a perfect example... windows xp, we already have that. usb midi controllers... we already have that.. interface.... we already have that. software daws and pluggins we'd install on the thing.... we already have that... 5 grand, we have that now... but wont later.

I think akai needed to make this product, as stated, NI did it... they did it half way with the APC line... I just think a new IP could have been used, but from a business perspective... I see why they went with the popular brand name.

mr_debauch wrote:The open labs is a perfect example... windows xp, we already have that. usb midi controllers... we already have that.. interface.... we already have that. software daws and pluggins we'd install on the thing.... we already have that... 5 grand, we have that now... but wont later.

That's what I'm saying. What's the point? I know I ain't spending no 3-5 g's on nothing for the studio any time soon, especially not another piece of beat making equipment! **** that!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

mr_debauch wrote:The open labs is a perfect example... windows xp, we already have that. usb midi controllers... we already have that.. interface.... we already have that. software daws and pluggins we'd install on the thing.... we already have that... 5 grand, we have that now... but wont later.

That's what I'm saying. What's the point? I know I ain't spending no 3-5 g's on nothing for the studio any time soon, especially not another piece of beat making equipment! **** that!

well I will say this, you make youtube videos .. so I am anticipating your videos on the ren or which ever model you wind up getting.. I thought I would like seeing a written review by you know who.. but after seeing him defensively ball licking numark against natural concerns or questions when he knows no more than anyone else.... I know his review will be the same old same old attempt to sell units for akai.

Ill-Green wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:
So you tweak the vst effect in ableton at the stu. Then what do you do when playing the beat in a live situation where you don't have access to those VST effects that you created in the lab?

Also, how does that work with sequencing vst virtual instruments and being able to detach from the computer?

You can sample your work with the VSTs on, into the box. Then play with it later, of course through that, you won't control the VST because now its a sample, but lets pretend that you got the perfect result and was satisfied. Also, if you like to tweak live, then a laptop would be sufficient.

For the second, its all a push of a button. When both INT and EXT are on, you get both worlds, standalone and controller. When I'm done using the computer, I just put it in INT mode and I can work within the box and the computer is shutted out. In the box, I can't access any VST, so I switch on EXT mode for that.

Akai could've made an MPC as just a hardware sampler/sequencer then put all that DAW power into the software so its less juice for the CPU, but they putted it all on the software. To make a hybrid you have to make both with their own job. Hardware for sampling and sound and software for VSTs and DAW.

Well I have a MPC 4k with 8 out expansion board & ADAT.. I can make all my beats with out turning on the computer using my analog 8 outs and outboard mixer..once it's done track it in my DAW thru my 8 channel ADAT in less than 5 minutes, sounding crisp and clear.

Ever since I got that ADAT expansion, I could care less about the Ren.If the Ren was stand alone....different story. Everybody doesn't have a 4k though, so The Ren is still a big thing to a lot of end users.

Why didn't Akai make a highend MPC whose software and hardware spec surpassing that of the MPC 4000 and 5000?

Because nobody would buy it! There is no market for a $3000 plus MPC...not when you can use a work around...as in cheap hardware MPC plus DAW for less than half the price.

Akai is catering to all producers...professionals, semi-professionals, hobbyists, gear collectors, etc. Lol

The funniest thing about all these threads is that nobody was talking about wanting a new MPC....especially not a hardware one before the Ren was announced.

im thinking the ren is gonna shit on the 5k, the 4k and the 25k

The reason it's not stand alone? Details inside this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=147446&hilit=Virtual

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Ill-Green wrote:I just want an instrument not a computer simulated controller. Thats my only gripe with the Ren. I'm sure it can be the most powerful sampler, but it feels like getting a loan through a middle-man when I can go straight to the bank myself.

So if you were the creator, how would you have made the standalone function work, given the presence of VST's in non-standalone mode?

I'd imagine you'd have an option where you could choose to burn any VST FX onto a new sample and have it appear on the standalone side of the MPC with your sequences. That would at least satisfy the people that don't wanna be 'laptop guy' on stage if they do live stuff.

Of course that wouldn't exactly be the same as working on your entire project away from the computer but it'd be useful in some situations.

I personally don't think they need a lot of sampler inside a hypothetical 'Standalone Ren' - just something 2500-like with more FX, memory, HD, etc. Then they can sell the benefits of the software route on top. Sell it as a 'sketch out your beats on the MPC anywhere, then polish them with our killer software...'

There has to be demand for an updated 2500 with full controller capability AND a cool new beat-making plugin thrown in? Even if it was $800 more it would have an audience? It'd still be a good deal by historical Akai pricing standards.

groovemonger wrote:I personally don't think they need a lot of sampler inside a hypothetical 'Standalone Ren' - just something 2500-like with more FX, memory, HD, etc. Then they can sell the benefits of the software route on top. Sell it as a 'sketch out your beats on the MPC anywhere, then polish them with our killer software...'

There has to be demand for an updated 2500 with full controller capability.

^^^^ You need a MPC 3700, I think



I think, rather than thinking a stand alone MPC as a complete studio, perhaps it should be viewed as an instrument. No-one complains about their Sunburst Fender Telecaster & Twin Reverb Amp not having VST capabilities.

And a standalone MPC with Ren-like integration option sounds like a winner to me. Best of both worlds.

JAH wrote:The funniest thing about all these threads is that nobody was talking about wanting a new MPC....especially not a hardware one before the Ren was announced.

I actually have asked that multiple times; "Why do you want a new hardware MPC" and the best/only answer I got was along the lines of "to have a faster MPC with updated specs".

groovemonger wrote:
1. I'd imagine you'd have an option where you could choose to burn any VST FX onto a new sample and have it appear on the standalone side of the MPC with your sequences. That would at least satisfy the people that don't wanna be 'laptop guy' on stage if they do live stuff.

Of course that wouldn't exactly be the same as working on your entire project away from the computer but it'd be useful in some situations.

2. I personally don't think they need a lot of sampler inside a hypothetical 'Standalone Ren' - just something 2500-like with more FX, memory, HD, etc. Then they can sell the benefits of the software route on top. Sell it as a 'sketch out your beats on the MPC anywhere, then polish them with our killer software...'

3. There has to be demand for an updated 2500 with full controller capability AND a cool new beat-making plugin thrown in? Even if it was $800 more it would have an audience? It'd still be a good deal by historical Akai pricing standards.

1. The problem I have with the whole sampling/freezing angle is you can't further edit anything unless you rechop everything which is just counter production IMO. The only way I can see this being useful is if you are just playing beats live, like in a beat show case. But again, this is all shit you can currently do with any MPC in combination with hardware and software synths/effects.

2. If they didn't have a full out sampler you KNOW the hardware guys would be pissed about having to still rely on a computer.

3. Honestly, if they were able to accomplish a fully functioning hybrid at around $2000, I would buy it. But for me, even that is pushin it since I still got Maschine for $400 and I would likely not even use the standalone feature.

LZ Roberts wrote:^^^^ You need a MPC 3700, I think



I think, rather than thinking a stand alone MPC as a complete studio, perhaps it should be viewed as an instrument. No-one complains about their Sunburst Fender Telecaster & Twin Reverb Amp not having VST capabilities.

And a standalone MPC with Ren-like integration option sounds like a winner to me. Best of both worlds.

There's that 3700 again!

Honestly, if it weren't for my experience with Maschine, I wouldn't give two shits about VST integration. I've been using my XL and 2500 to control VST's through midi for years. However, after tasting what Maschine can do, I have to have it. Being able to have all your VST settings automatically saved within the session and easily recalled upon loading the session, instead of having to create preset files for all your settings is GOLD. You go to reinstall a VST or your OS and forget to backup your VST presets, then you're screwed. Mainly speaking for Pro Tools which doesn't have native VST support, so often it doesn't save your settings within the Pro Tools session, or the settings get erased somehow. Anyway, in addition to that, having control of all the VST parameters from the controller is nice as well.

LZ Roberts wrote:

groovemonger wrote:I personally don't think they need a lot of sampler inside a hypothetical 'Standalone Ren' - just something 2500-like with more FX, memory, HD, etc. Then they can sell the benefits of the software route on top. Sell it as a 'sketch out your beats on the MPC anywhere, then polish them with our killer software...'

There has to be demand for an updated 2500 with full controller capability.

^^^^ You need a MPC 3700, I think



I think, rather than thinking a stand alone MPC as a complete studio, perhaps it should be viewed as an instrument. No-one complains about their Sunburst Fender Telecaster & Twin Reverb Amp not having VST capabilities.

And a standalone MPC with Ren-like integration option sounds like a winner to me. Best of both worlds.

I dunno, the new iPad 3 is probably going to be quad core ARM, pretty close in power to a laptop of a couple of years back. Maybe Akai could port a version of the software to the iPad. That's pretty close to standalone in that you don't need a big old computer...