The reason it's not standalone! Technically speaking.

There seems to be just something about dedicated hardware that makes us want it.

If you look at synths, ppl drool over Nords, Virus's, the new Dave Smith synths, and then there's the new Arturia Mini Brute etc. All of which can so easily be achieved via softsynth,computer and keyboard. Why is that ?

I like my 2500 despite its limitations and wouldn't exchange it for a Ren, although I am not at all anti-Ren. And Hellfire, you're still very much keeping hold of your MPC's despite Ren and Maschine.

I don't quite understand it myself. Its like it's more real if its dedicated hardware, a computer/software version is like cheating or copping out. Suppose the same thing seems to go for vinyl as opposed to MP3. Vinyl is a pain in the arse compared to the versatility of MP3. If you got the vinyl then that's cool, if you've just got the MP3 then that's lame.

So that said it seems like we all want the MPC to develop as a standalone machine too.

groovemonger wrote:I dunno, the new iPad 3 is probably going to be quad core ARM, pretty close in power to a laptop of a couple of years back. Maybe Akai could port a version of the software to the iPad. That's pretty close to standalone in that you don't need a big old computer...

The idea was an ipad that you can plug into a stand alone MPC so that you could use the bigger screen and touch if you wanted to. The MPC would function perfectly as a 2500,3000,5000 perfectly without one. An MPC like the 3700 that needed an ipad just to work would be like shooting yourself in the foot.

I agree that cost has something to do with it not being stand alone.. Not that it cost a lot for the hardware(a $700 laptop spec is how much more powerful than a mp5000, 2500k for flagship mp doesn't sound ridiculous to me ?? if you don't want standalone features 'studio' does everything in software that the ren does yes? ), but it cost a lot in a well thought out design for a os that's written specifically for the hardware combination.

I think vst effect freezing should be done per pad rather than per pattern... So then you could still rearrange the pad note sequence. And an actual vsti freeze wouldn't be freezing the patterns either, but rather the notes and velocity layers... (would take a rather long time depending on how many velocity layers and notes where to be sampled)So the vsti would just be frozen to an akai "REN" pgm. Seems like a programming nitemare.. But it definitely would be a "game changer"..

I dont need VST functionality in standalone, I only want this when I hook it up to the computer via Ren software.

The reason this hasn't happened is because someones got complacent and refuses to innovate.

dazastah wrote:1. I agree that cost has something to do with it not being stand alone.. Not that it cost a lot for the hardware(a $700 laptop spec is how much more powerful than a mp5000, 2500k for flagship mp doesn't sound ridiculous to me ?? if you don't want standalone features 'studio' does everything in software that the ren does yes? ), but it cost a lot in a well thought out design for a os that's written specifically for the hardware combination.

2. I think vst effect freezing should be done per pad rather than per pattern... So then you could still rearrange the pad note sequence. And an actual vsti freeze wouldn't be freezing the patterns either, but rather the notes and velocity layers... (would take a rather long time depending on how many velocity layers and notes where to be sampled)So the vsti would just be frozen to an akai "REN" pgm. Seems like a programming nitemare.. But it definitely would be a "game changer"..

1. Yes, but the major factor here is that most people already have a laptop or computer. The majority of people aren't going to have to buy a computer just to use the Ren. So that $700 is a non factor.

2. Sounds good for drums and short one shots, but what about melodies from virtual instruments? Would you freeze each single note of the pattern? You have accommodate the tails of each note which would take even more storage space and ram. Even on the short one shots/drums being frozen per pad, what about the tails on a snare you ran through reverb? It could sound un-natural if you have that snare on mono polyphony. If you have the snare on multi polyphony, then the reverb on it can become crowded if you do a repeat snare hit every 16th note. And what about the fact that your snare/kick/hat pad may be played at different velocities throughout the pattern. If you freeze only the pad and not the pattern, how would those variations be reflected in the "frozen" state?

Since they were able to do Aksys with the 4000 why couldn't they do something similar that you guys are suggesting is not possible?

tomc3084 wrote:Since they were able to do Aksys with the 4000 why couldn't they do something similar that you guys are suggesting is not possible?

The object is being able to achieve the same exact user experience whether you are connected to a computer or in standalone mode. VST's being in the mix makes that not as simple as something like Aksys! Currently with Ren, you can instantiate up to 4 different VST's on each pad. How would you make this same exact experience possible without a computer?

Sorry but the reason I would want standalone is so I can sequence with the MPC's solid internal clock and sound card without being tethered to a buggy computer full of variables.

VST in standalone is not important.

JAH wrote:Why didn't Akai make a highend MPC whose software and hardware spec surpassing that of the MPC 4000 and 5000?

Because nobody would buy it! There is no market for a $3000 plus MPC...not when you can use a work around...as in cheap hardware MPC plus DAW for less than half the price.

Akai is catering to all producers...professionals, semi-professionals, hobbyists, gear collectors, etc. Lol

The funniest thing about all these threads is that nobody was talking about wanting a new MPC....especially not a hardware one before the Ren was announced.

MPC is my instrument. I prefer to get down on vintage over virtual.

Like I keep a 1000 by my bed. I heard a tight old school song when I woke. Ran it thru the 1k and made a dope beat instantly. No waiting for the CPU and program to boot up, no creating and setting file parameters and navigation thru menus with a mouse.
Just pushed one button and ......boom! I'm making music with my instrument.


But you're right. I am more inclined to buy the Ren as opposed to a MPC 6000 or 4500. Akai doesn't need another hardware MP, there's plenty of those to choose from already.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

tomc3084 wrote:Since they were able to do Aksys with the 4000 why couldn't they do something similar that you guys are suggesting is not possible?

The object is being able to achieve the same exact user experience whether you are connected to a computer or in standalone mode. VST's being in the mix makes that not as simple as something like Aksys! Currently with Ren, you can instantiate up to 4 different VST's on each pad. How would you make this same exact experience possible without a computer?

Hellfire, I totally understand what you are saying. All I am saying is since they did it with the 4000 why couldn't they do something similar with the Ren. And like you said obviously you can only do vst when connected to the computer. What I am thinking is you make a beat (project) on the computer with the Ren and you export everything to a Ren standalone project and you can then turn the computer off and work like that. Really though, it doesn't matter much to me because I will be doing exactly what I just described with my MPC 1000 and the Ren although it would be cool if all could be done with the Ren. Unfortunately I think to be able to do what I described would change the internals drastically and almost doubling the price for the ren. Either way the Ren will be so awesome and i cannot wait till it is released so i can finally ditch the ni maschine for a mpc workflow on the pc!

The MPC Studio should've been USB chargeable with an SD Card slot running a basic (non VST) OS in standalone/legacy mode.

When connected to the Ren software it would then give you all the VST capabilities you need.

Having something so small thats not portable is a crime imo.

Retrofreak wrote:Sorry but the reason I would want standalone is so I can sequence with the MPC's solid internal clock and sound card without being tethered to a buggy computer full of variables.

VST in standalone is not important.

OK! But that's another discussion and a road we've been down many times already. This one is about how to make it work standalone without sacrificing functionality!

LZ Roberts wrote:
The idea was an ipad that you can plug into a stand alone MPC so that you could use the bigger screen and touch if you wanted to. The MPC would function perfectly as a 2500,3000,5000 perfectly without one. An MPC like the 3700 that needed an ipad just to work would be like shooting yourself in the foot.

I know. But if you could use the Ren with an iPad (an 'always on' product with a good battery life) or, hell, even an iPhone it would be quite cool, wouldn't it? A bit more standalone. A bit like the Fly on steroids. iStuff is getting surprisingly powerful now.

MPCWeapon1 wrote:MPC is my instrument. I prefer to get down on vintage over virtual.

Like I keep a 1000 by my bed. I heard a tight old school song when I woke. Ran it thru the 1k and made a dope beat instantly. No waiting for the CPU and program to boot up, no creating and setting file parameters and navigation thru menus with a mouse.
Just pushed one button and ......boom! I'm making music with my instrument.

Cool, but again, this isn't a discussion of whether standalone of tethered is better. This discussion is how can Akai possibly make it work so both sides are equally happy and have the same functionality of the MPC in both modes.

tomc3084 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:The object is being able to achieve the same exact user experience whether you are connected to a computer or in standalone mode. VST's being in the mix makes that not as simple as something like Aksys! Currently with Ren, you can instantiate up to 4 different VST's on each pad. How would you make this same exact experience possible without a computer?

Hellfire, I totally understand what you are saying. All I am saying is since they did it with the 4000 why couldn't they do something similar with the Ren. And like you said obviously you can only do vst when connected to the computer. What I am thinking is you make a beat (project) on the computer with the Ren and you export everything to a Ren standalone project and you can then turn the computer off and work like that. Really though, it doesn't matter much to me because I will be doing exactly what I just described with my MPC 1000 and the Ren although it would be cool if all could be done with the Ren. Unfortunately I think to be able to do what I described would change the internals drastically and almost doubling the price for the ren. Either way the Ren will be so awesome and i cannot wait till it is released so i can finally ditch the ni maschine for a mpc workflow on the pc!

The reason it matters is for reasons I explained on page 1. You make a beat while connected to the computer. You throw on your VST effects and instruments and you got your shit SMACKIN. Then you disconnect from the computer and go into standalone mode and suddenly the beat ain't smackin like it was because all the processing you did with your effects are no longer there. So how can they make it so your beat still sounds the same when in standalone mode and is still fully editable? They have to make it have the same functionality as it has connected to your computer. But how can they do that and keep cost down?