The reason it's not standalone! Technically speaking.

Retrofreak wrote:The concept is similar both devices ran standalone and integrated with software at an affordable price.

Akai could simply build on the concept

If the concept is so great and people want it, then why are the products discontinued and why isn't there more similar products on the market?

Just because some guys (to include myself...and my 1000+ feature requests) in an internet forum think its a great idea doesn't mean it should be produced....doesn't mean it will sell.

Roland has all sorts of technology at their finger tips. Why didn't they include this technology in their flagship Fantom G which is still being sold in stores?

JAH wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:The concept is similar both devices ran standalone and integrated with software at an affordable price.

Akai could simply build on the concept

If the concept is so great and people want it, then why are the products discontinued and why isn't there more similar products on the market?

Just because some guys (to include myself...and my 1000+ feature requests) in an internet forum think its a great idea doesn't mean it should be produced....doesn't mean it will sell.

Roland has all sorts of technology at their finger tips. Why didn't they include this technology in their flagship Fantom G which is still being sold in stores?

Jah with respect,

As you well know most hardware has gone soft, but part of an MPC's strength is in it own rock solid sequencer imo.

I think Akai are doing a great job, but personally I think they could've made the MPC Studio more unique if it ran in basic standalone mode.

It's slim and portable, but yet it has to be chained to a computer??? = Fail

I dont need VST's on the go, I simply want a light weight MPC I can put on my lap and vibe with then later attach to a computer for all the bells and whistles.

JAH wrote:You guys are still talking about a $3000-$4000 MPC. If what some of you are proposing is so easy to do and consumers actually wanted to buy them...then why isn't any other company making this type of product?

Hey Jah,

Dont you just get the feeling when you look at the design of the Ren + take in to account the built in soundcard etc that somewhere back there it was going to be a Hybrid but someone at Akai lost their nerve and decided controller only.

Noobs may be part of the reason a hybrid version could be taken off the implementation board. No mater how it was explained to them, they would scream and shout for VST implementation in stand alone mode. They would cry that the stand alone mode cant load up 4 gigs of sample content even though they wouldnt use more than 120mb (at most). Noobs, even without knowing how their gear works are among the first to hit the boards demanding new features. Their relentless, and thats not so good news for manufacturers. They receive much consideration at the design stage. Why MP3 import? Its crap, no pro would import mP3s unless he had absolutely no alternative wav, CD or vinyl source. so, its there for noobs and the ill informed. If it wasnt they would be screaming in an instant. I mean they gotta be able to use their thousands of tracks downloaded from the pirate sites. Of course there would be other reasons Im just pointing out one potential one. Its naive of you to think it would be of no interest to people out there. I think the opposite would be true and a hybrid one would have created more excitement that the Ren already has.

Anyway, what the problem. You seem to be against the idea just for the sake of being against it. If there were a hybrid version it wouldnt affect you negatively. Furthermore I would like to see Akai do this and keep the concept of hardware alive. And you must admit a hybrid one would make for a pretty awesome piece of kit. Price not $4000 as you claim. More like $2000 at most

JAH wrote:
If the concept is so great and people want it, then why are the products discontinued and why isn't there more similar products on the market?

This is easy. Folks including me want our hardware to talk to our computers. Were not running around with a horse and cart demanding everyone stop using electricity. Of course the concept to many that a stand alone MPC which cant speak to the computer elegantly is not exciting these days. But a Hybrid is and if you think about it thats a development worthy of serious attention..Come on man, your clutching at every negative straw you can think of.

Retrofreak wrote:
Jah with respect,

As you well know most hardware has gone soft, but part of an MPC's strength is in it own rock solid sequencer imo.

I think Akai are doing a great job, but personally I think they could've made the MPC Studio more unique if it ran in basic standalone mode.

It's slim and portable, but yet it has to be chained to a computer??? = Fail

I dont need VST's on the go, I simply want a light weight MPC I can put on my lap and vibe with then later attach to a computer for all the bells and whistles.

I still and always will own a hardware MPC. In fact, I am selling or giving away my 2000XL and getting a 2500 today as I found one at a reasonable price. But while hardware is great, it still has limitations. I was already using the MPC 2500 with Reason and Nuendo. For me, the MPC Ren is a natural progression of what I was already doing.

Akai still sells hardware MPCs so there is still a viable option for those that need it. Creating a standalone version of the new MPCs would be great but it will still need time to develop and it would still cost more. Not a problem with me...but everyone is not willing to spend a huge amount of money when the end result (music) can be accomplished with any DAW and a cheap controller.

labcoats wrote:Anyway, what the problem. You seem to be against the idea just for the sake of being against it. If there were a hybrid version it wouldnt affect you negatively.

Actually...you are using my own words. I have said it several times over the past few months to Akai haters that the MPC Ren will not negatively impact what people are doing should they not purchase it.

And for the record, I will support any highend MPC as I always have. I am not against a new hardware MPC. In fact, in one of my 1000+ feature requests threads, I mentioned I would like to see a hybrid MPC something in par with the Motif...where it can be used as a standalone unit or open up inside a DAW and be used as a VST. I also wanted an MPC that saves in a format that can be read/opened my a DAW...like Motif and Cubase.

My argument here is that it takes time and resources to develop MPCs. Hardware MPCs are more expensive to make than products like the MPC Ren/Studio. Akai can only push the OS of the MPC 5000 so far....the same is true with the JJ OS for the MPC 2500/1000. There is no such limit on the MPC Ren/Studio.

So it is just my opinion that the MPC Ren/Studio will be more successful because of their price points...not that a standalone/hybrid wouldn't be a great product. Trust me....if there was a new hybrid MPC put on the market, I would have it as soon as it hit the streets.

So I can talk about and look forward to these upcoming MPCs and feature request Akai to death to make it into a better product. Or I can feature request Akai to death about what I want in a standalone/hybrid MPC. In the end....I will most likely do both.

labcoats wrote:

JAH wrote:
If the concept is so great and people want it, then why are the products discontinued and why isn't there more similar products on the market?

This is easy. Folks including me want our hardware to talk to our computers. Were not running around with a horse and cart demanding everyone stop using electricity. Of course the concept to many that a stand alone MPC which cant speak to the computer elegantly is not exciting these days. But a Hybrid is and if you think about it thats a development worthy of serious attention..Come on man, your clutching at every negative straw you can think of.

Negative? I am pointing out the price tag of your vision. Nobody would buy it. That is why you don't see other companies making this type of product.

Dammit, this is where I didn't want this thread to go!

I personally don't see the sense in buying a brand new hardware MPC just to make some "sketch" or "scratch" ideas with only to have to wait to get home to really polish it up like I want. You can sketch some shit on any MPC. If I can't take a beat I was working on in software mode and have my shit sound the same way in standalone without jumping through hoops, I would go nuts and the mood would die. When I make music, I like to have full access to everything I own so if an idea springs, I don't have to wait to get it out.

And I know no hardware MPC has VST capabilities, but so what? If you won't miss it then what would really be the point in a new MPC? What would be the advancement of making yet another MPC the same way?

Retro, you said you don't like the way computers handle midi, and that it's sloppy and not tight. Well how do you think it's gonna be when you go to plug your hybrid into USB for software mode and tracking? You don't think the computer is still gonna add "slop" to your sequences due to some "low level" CPU tasks getting in the way of the computer playing back those midi notes that the MPC is sending?

labcoats wrote:Stand alone mode could have had the same capability as a number of MPCs but would have probably been a combination of the best aspects of various models. Lets say it had 64mb ram standard expandable to 512 or more (ram is very cheap these days). It has an enhanced 4000/5000 type Sequencer, 64 or 128 note polyphony, and had multitimbral functionality. It had some FX, nothing OTT, and the ability to filter any sound. Nothing to complex but more than enough to make tunes and beats. Hardly any research and development costs would have gone in to that side of it becasue they already have the groundwork done. But this Hybrid would have been able to do a lot more by linking to the computer at the same time to give on screen sequencer display, sample editing, instant file transfer etc. Stuff that couldnt work in this mode such as VSTs would be grayed out. Big deal I say...But even then a workaround was possible such as a firewire audio interface like the Allen+Heath Zedr16 and Mackie Onyx so your hardware Ren/Hybrid tracks could be sent to separate channels on your Daw. Voila you can go to town on your VSTs. Once the track is done you can switch to VST mode, transfer the samples and sequence data at the click of a switch and your golden. The technology is there for this, its nothing new.

Sounds good and all but honestly, to me it sounds like you're describing an MPC 2500. I make VERY sample heavy beats and have never even come close to maxing out the ram on my 2500. So I can't see the need for anymore ram than that in a hardware MPC if not to accommodate VST functionality in standalone mode. I also don't know many people these days that actually use an MPC's built in efx for their final product over VST plugins. You say nothing OTT on the efx, but I say why even bother with a new MPC then? What you are describing here just doesn't seem worth buying a whole new MPC. You could just keep your current MPC and transfer/record the midi data into your DAW (or just track the audio) for VST tweaking and save yourself $2000.

I think the only way to make it really worth while is to make it 100% fully functional tethered and untethered. Anything less in a hybrid attempt just seems like a waste!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

tomc3084 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:The object is being able to achieve the same exact user experience whether you are connected to a computer or in standalone mode. VST's being in the mix makes that not as simple as something like Aksys! Currently with Ren, you can instantiate up to 4 different VST's on each pad. How would you make this same exact experience possible without a computer?

Hellfire, I totally understand what you are saying. All I am saying is since they did it with the 4000 why couldn't they do something similar with the Ren. And like you said obviously you can only do vst when connected to the computer. What I am thinking is you make a beat (project) on the computer with the Ren and you export everything to a Ren standalone project and you can then turn the computer off and work like that. Really though, it doesn't matter much to me because I will be doing exactly what I just described with my MPC 1000 and the Ren although it would be cool if all could be done with the Ren. Unfortunately I think to be able to do what I described would change the internals drastically and almost doubling the price for the ren. Either way the Ren will be so awesome and i cannot wait till it is released so i can finally ditch the ni maschine for a mpc workflow on the pc!

The reason it matters is for reasons I explained on page 1. You make a beat while connected to the computer. You throw on your VST effects and instruments and you got your **** SMACKIN. Then you disconnect from the computer and go into standalone mode and suddenly the beat ain't smackin like it was because all the processing you did with your effects are no longer there. So how can they make it so your beat still sounds the same when in standalone mode and is still fully editable? They have to make it have the same functionality as it has connected to your computer. But how can they do that and keep cost down?

Like I said, if you had it where once you got all your vsts on and it is "smacking" like you say you click on export to standalone program and it would export everything to wav files with all the "smacking" vst effects in there. I think this would be a great way to do it. In reality though this would only be great for the MPC studio due to its portability because the ren most likely would stay in one place in your studio so that would make this pointless. The only reason I would see this being great is because you could make a beat on the pc and then take it on the go with the studio. Really though like I said before and like Jahrome has said this mpc would be way to expensive(3-4k range)for most people buying mpc's and akai wouldn't sell very many units.
Really though I don't know why we keep on talking about why it is/isn't standalone and what the ideal mpc ren would be etc. when this is not what the ren is and it is rather pointless talking about it, even though I am in here talking about .
it too(shame). Honestly we are better off talking about getting a mpc 4000 update because that is just as likely to happen as the ren standalone is. Sorry for the long rant here.

I'm thinking that a 2500 with a bit of tweakage and USB 2 so that it can optionally interface the Ren software would about satisfy the standalone-heads.

Unfortunately, I'm getting the impression that if we want an MPC as nature intended then its going to be via the second-hand market coz Akai will be discontinuing standalone.

But then, that'll make our MPCs cool & collectable until they go wrong and we have to get a new one .

LZ Roberts wrote:I'm thinking that a 2500 with a bit of tweakage and USB 2 so that it can optionally interface the Ren software would about satisfy the standalone-heads.

Unfortunately, I'm getting the impression that if we want an MPC as nature intended then its going to be via the second-hand market coz Akai will be discontinuing standalone.

But then, that'll make our MPCs cool & collectable until they go wrong and we have to get a new one .

I think you may be right, but I am hoping you are wrong and they continue to make new hardware mpcs. I think there will always be a market for a hardware mpc and akai will take care of that. Even if they don't come out with something new and innovative on the hardware side I still think, at least for awhile, they will continue selling 1000 and iterations of it and I am sure there will always be a full sized mpc hardware too. I could be wrong though, computers and controllers are quickly becoming the future of beat making and it is common sense to utilize the computers we already have instead of buying a hardware unit for a substantially more amount. Here's to hoping there will be a mpc 6000, 7000, 8000, 9000 etc. I love not having to stare at a computer screen and being able to make a beat on the couch, and even though I could do that with a macbook and a mpc studio or a macbook and a maschine, we all know it is not the same!

I was just thinking though about something. It would be really cool if Akai released an expansion/addon for the 1000/2500/5000 that would turn them into a ren/standalone mpc. Now that would be slick. Wonder if something like that would be possible at all???

tomc3084 wrote:Here's to hoping there will be a mpc 6000, 7000, 8000, 9000 etc.

The MPC3700

tomc3084 wrote:I love not having to stare at a computer screen...... we all know it is not the same!

+1

DJ Hellfire wrote:Dammit, this is where I didn't want this thread to go!

I personally don't see the sense in buying a brand new hardware MPC just to make some "sketch" or "scratch" ideas with only to have to wait to get home to really polish it up like I want. You can sketch some **** on any MPC. If I can't take a beat I was working on in software mode and have my **** sound the same way in standalone without jumping through hoops, I would go nuts and the mood would die. When I make music, I like to have full access to everything I own so if an idea springs, I don't have to wait to get it out.

And I know no hardware MPC has VST capabilities, but so what? If you won't miss it then what would really be the point in a new MPC? What would be the advancement of making yet another MPC the same way?

Retro, you said you don't like the way computers handle midi, and that it's sloppy and not tight. Well how do you think it's gonna be when you go to plug your hybrid into USB for software mode and tracking? You don't think the computer is still gonna add "slop" to your sequences due to some "low level" CPU tasks getting in the way of the computer playing back those midi notes that the MPC is sending?

Your focusing on the wrong thing, these "scratch ideas" have been the hits that the MPC has built it's reputation upon.

Regarding standalone:

I am only referring to the MPC Studio, as I feel it could've been the new MPC 1000/2500 hybrid.

The Renaissance is too big to be portable, so I have no problem with where Akai are taking it.


I am happy with what the current legacy MPC's can do, my only gripe is the way they interface with computers.

Akai could make the Ren Software an expander that replicates the ideas you've already programmed on your MPC in standalone.

It could simply dump your audio programs and sequences over USB and run ITB reducing the MPC to a controller, this would be simple and cost effective and imo represents the best of both worlds.


I repeat!!

I do not need VST's in standalone on an ultra portable "MPC Studio" and even if I did only then would I tether my MPC to my laptop for the extra processing power..simple!

LZ Roberts wrote:I'm thinking that a 2500 with a bit of tweakage and USB 2 so that it can optionally interface the Ren software would about satisfy the standalone-heads.

Unfortunately, I'm getting the impression that if we want an MPC as nature intended then its going to be via the second-hand market coz Akai will be discontinuing standalone.

But then, that'll make our MPCs cool & collectable until they go wrong and we have to get a new one .

Agreed!

tomc3084 wrote:1. Like I said, if you had it where once you got all your vsts on and it is "smacking" like you say you click on export to standalone program and it would export everything to wav files with all the "smacking" vst effects in there. I think this would be a great way to do it. In reality though this would only be great for the MPC studio due to its portability because the ren most likely would stay in one place in your studio so that would make this pointless. The only reason I would see this being great is because you could make a beat on the pc and then take it on the go with the studio. Really though like I said before and like Jahrome has said this mpc would be way to expensive(3-4k range)for most people buying mpc's and akai wouldn't sell very many units.

2. Really though I don't know why we keep on talking about why it is/isn't standalone and what the ideal mpc ren would be etc. when this is not what the ren is and it is rather pointless talking about it, even though I am in here talking about

1. And as I said, this would be cool. However, for a person like me that makes beats with a good amount of change ups/sequences, or a person that doesn't sample, you could ended with gigs worth of samples exported to Wav file that you can't even manipulate unless you go through rechopping everything.

2. It's not supposed to be. The thread is supposed to be about how to make it standalone without dealing with the issue above, or rather why Akai techinically didn't make it standalone. The thread is going in circles because people keep talking about why standalone would be better!

DJ Hellfire wrote:The thread is supposed to be about how to make it standalone without dealing with the issue about, or rather why Akai techinically didn't make it standalone. The thread is going in circles because people keep talking about why standalone would be better!

I get you now... The Ren has to be the way it is because of the demands of music production. Akai has had to do this to stay relevant.

The old school MPC just has to make its own way in the world as best it can now.