The reason it's not standalone! Technically speaking.

Retrofreak wrote:Your focusing on the wrong thing, these "scratch ideas" have been the hits that the MPC has built it's reputation upon.

Regarding standalone:

I am only referring to the MPC Studio, as I feel it could've been the new MPC 1000/2500 hybrid.

The Renaissance is too big to be portable, so I have no problem with where Akai are taking it.


I am happy with what the current legacy MPC's can do, my only gripe is the way they interface with computers.

Akai could make the Ren Software an expander that replicates the ideas you've already programmed on your MPC in standalone.

It could simply dump your audio programs and sequences over USB and run ITB reducing the MPC to a controller, this would be simple and cost effective and imo represents the best of both worlds.


I repeat!!

I do not need VST's in standalone on an ultra portable "MPC Studio" and even if I did only then would I tether my MPC to my laptop for the extra processing power..simple!

I also don't about the reputation being built on making scratch ideas. I don't know one beat maker personally who uses it for that or has purchased it for that reason. You can make scratch beats with your mouth on a portable tape recorded (or your phone now).

Sounds like you could use an MPC 500 my friend, or a 1000. I'm sure what you want would not even fit inside a housing the size of the Studio. You can just take your project from your legacy MPC and load it into Ren/Studio and achieve the same thing you want in this hybrid.

tomc3084 wrote:1. Even if they don't come out with something new and innovative on the hardware side I still think, at least for awhile, they will continue selling 1000 and iterations of it and I am sure there will always be a full sized mpc hardware too. I could be wrong though, computers and controllers are quickly becoming the future of beat making and it is common sense to utilize the computers we already have instead of buying a hardware unit for a substantially more amount. Here's to hoping there will be a mpc 6000, 7000, 8000, 9000 etc.

2. I love not having to stare at a computer screen and being able to make a beat on the couch, and even though I could do that with a macbook and a mpc studio or a macbook and a maschine, we all know it is not the same!

3. I was just thinking though about something. It would be really cool if Akai released an expansion/addon for the 1000/2500/5000 that would turn them into a ren/standalone mpc. Now that would be slick. Wonder if something like that would be possible at all???

1. This is what I'm saying. If they are gonna do the hybrid, do it right. Why half-ass it? I know if I made a product, I don't wanna tell customers that in order to unlock the full potential of it that they need to use a computer. No, would want them to be able to have the same (or similar as possible) user experience with or without a computer if they desired. Stripping a major feature and innovation off of it so that it can be used the same as the products I made 10 and 20 years ago wouldn't be worth my time.

2. Yeah, I can say it's definitely different, with Maschine or Reason. But for me it's still fun and my end result is the exact same. I'm just getting to that end result much more efficiently!

3. This would be cool, but those MPC's weren't made with this idea in mind. So I'm sure it's impossible! Plus, it would probably take sales away from the new MPC line.

We could circumvent a lot of the discussion if Akai actually had the ability and vision to code pro quality effects and instruments into their products. Kind of like the way Reason is a stellar product but will never use VSTs in any way shape or form, other than via Rewire.

5 or 10 years ago it was considered revolutionary that an SSL desk could be modelled accurately in software, but today it is a given that high end gear emulations can be bundled in with DAWs or even be given away free as plugins.

So for arguments sake, imagine a hybrid where you have emulations of Moog filters, SSL desks, PRO reverbs (vital for me), clean and vintage EQ, slick tape delays, flexible distortion, a useable analogue VA, a granular synth (less important but nice to have), maybe even a bass synth... you get the idea. A rounded DAW that would function identically in both hardware and software. All that stuff is available as freeware, so there's nothing stopping Akai repackaging it together into one product that would be unique in the market. The problem is that takes vision and financial investment, neither of which Akai seems to have.

Remember the days when Akai had the most comprehensive sound libraries in the world? Off the back of a Reason-like DAW they could open up that area of the market again by putting out 'Refills' specifically for the Ren/Studio. Lots of money to be made by doing that.

VST support is undoubtedly great, but I think it will cause more problems than anything else. Most software heads will track everything into Pro Tools anyway, so having a Rewire link to a bigger DAW wouldn't be an issue to give VST support. If anything, that software link is a way smaller leap to make than having your controller chained to a computer 24/7.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:Your focusing on the wrong thing, these "scratch ideas" have been the hits that the MPC has built it's reputation upon.

Regarding standalone:

I am only referring to the MPC Studio, as I feel it could've been the new MPC 1000/2500 hybrid.

The Renaissance is too big to be portable, so I have no problem with where Akai are taking it.


I am happy with what the current legacy MPC's can do, my only gripe is the way they interface with computers.

Akai could make the Ren Software an expander that replicates the ideas you've already programmed on your MPC in standalone.

It could simply dump your audio programs and sequences over USB and run ITB reducing the MPC to a controller, this would be simple and cost effective and imo represents the best of both worlds.


I repeat!!

I do not need VST's in standalone on an ultra portable "MPC Studio" and even if I did only then would I tether my MPC to my laptop for the extra processing power..simple!

I also don't about the reputation being built on making scratch ideas. I don't know one beat maker personally who uses it for that or has purchased it for that reason. "You can make scratch beats with your mouth on a portable tape recorded (or your phone now). "

Sounds like you could use an MPC 500 my friend, or a 1000. I'm sure what you want would not even fit inside a housing the size of the Studio. You can just take your project from your legacy MPC and load it into Ren/Studio and achieve the same thing you want in this hybrid.

Your being pedantic about the wrong point.

I've stated clearly that hits have been made on MPC's for years without VSTs.

Most top MPC beat makers need nothing more than samples and a tight sequencer to get their "scratch" ideas down quickly in order build upon them later in their DAWs.

"You can make scratch beats with your mouth on a portable tape recorded (or your phone now). "

Exactly!.

There is nothing stopping Akai from releasing an MPC Studio with a mobile OS or Linux that can run standalone and have tethered VST integration.



I feel Windows 8 may lend it's self to being a future operating system for portable music devices as the PC form factor is changing.









Not too long before we have light weight versions of the below imo:

Coz wrote:So for arguments sake, imagine a hybrid where you have emulations of Moog filters, SSL desks, PRO reverbs (vital for me), clean and vintage EQ, slick tape delays, flexible distortion, a useable analogue VA, a granular synth (less important but nice to have), maybe even a bass synth... you get the idea. A rounded DAW that would function identically in both hardware and software. All that stuff is available as freeware, so there's nothing stopping Akai repackaging it together into one product that would be unique in the market. The problem is that takes vision and financial investment, neither of which Akai seems to have.

Remember the days when Akai had the most comprehensive sound libraries in the world? Off the back of a Reason-like DAW they could open up that area of the market again by putting out 'Refills' specifically for the Ren/Studio. Lots of money to be made by doing that.

VST support is undoubtedly great, but I think it will cause more problems than anything else. Most software heads will track everything into Pro Tools anyway, so having a Rewire link to a bigger DAW wouldn't be an issue to give VST support. If anything, that software link is a way smaller leap to make than having your controller chained to a computer 24/7.

sorry but wtf has this got to do with the mpc ren? if u have used the maschine u will not underestimate the benfits of using maschine standalone and having the vsts available to complete full tracks within the stripped down simplified version interface like maschine as opposed to using vsts in a full fledged daw which can become more compleex then it needs to be with regard to implmentation.

jpeg wrote:sorry but wtf has this got to do with the mpc ren?

You can't really discuss software and standalone functionality being identical (the purpose of the entire thread) unless you go right back to square one. Incorporating VST functionality into the hardware makes the product too pricey, and losing the VST ability in real standalone is something Hellfire and others don't want to lose. I'm coming from a subjective angle in an attempt to open the discussion out, because otherwise this thread is pretty meaningless. It's called lateral thinking sir.

jpeg wrote:if u have used the maschine u will not underestimate the benfits of using maschine standalone and having the vsts available to complete full tracks within the stripped down simplified version interface like maschine as opposed to using vsts in a full fledged daw which can become more compleex then it needs to be with regard to implmentation.

I own Maschine and I have been using plugins since 2001, so I don't need selling on the benefits of using decent effects and instruments within software. I've also never had any real issues with getting a great sound out of Reason without plugins. It has also never crashed on me. Go figure.

Retrofreak wrote:Your being pedantic about the wrong point.

I've stated clearly that hits have been made on MPC's for years without VSTs.

Most top MPC beat makers need nothing more than samples and a tight sequencer to get their "scratch" ideas down quickly in order build upon them later in their DAWs.

EXACTLY! So, why make yet ANOTHER box just to do the same shit??? Where is the innovation? It's seems you keep missing my point of not needing another hardware box to do the simple task you want, which is already available on currently powerful MPC's. That's why I keep raising that same point.

I personally make the final versions of my beats while I'm creating it in my MPC/Maschine. I don't make partial/scratch beats and finish them later in Pro Tools. Pro Tools is just simply for mixing, and maybe adding a slight reverb or delay here and there, and then adding vocals. But with VST integration directly into my beat maker, I don't have to wait til it's in Pro Tools to add that nice reverb to my snare or add a virtual instrument layer to my beat.

Just adding simple computer integration to any current hardware MPC would have been cool a couple years ago. But now, it's about more than that. Especially when you got gear like Maschine and Reason and Pro Tools or whatever that has these high quality effects built in, and are taking MPC users from Akai left and right.

Also, again, not everybody samples. And every guy that doesn't sample doesn't have bread to spend on a bunch of hardware synths, especially vintage. And having a bunch of hardware synths doesn't help portability either, when you rely on those synths to make your music. So if Akai released a hybrid MPC that could not load VST instruments or even some form of their own high quality instruments like Reason as Coz said, what on earth would attract this customer to buy it over something like Maschine? These guys that have been making NON-SAMPLED hits for years on MPC's have not done them on MPC's alone!

And again, since you missed my other question. What is going to stop the computer from slopping up your sequence when connect in tethered mode when the MPC is trying to send midi notes to it?

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:Your being pedantic about the wrong point.

I've stated clearly that hits have been made on MPC's for years without VSTs.

Most top MPC beat makers need nothing more than samples and a tight sequencer to get their "scratch" ideas down quickly in order build upon them later in their DAWs.

EXACTLY! So, why make yet ANOTHER box just to do the same ****??? Where is the innovation? It's seems you keep missing my point of not needing another hardware box to do the simple task you want, which is already available on currently powerful MPC's. That's why I keep raising that same point.

I personally make the final versions of my beats while I'm creating it in my MPC/Maschine. I don't make partial/scratch beats and finish them later in Pro Tools. Pro Tools is just simply for mixing, and maybe adding a slight reverb or delay here and there, and then adding vocals. But with VST integration directly into my beat maker, I don't have to wait til it's in Pro Tools to add that nice reverb to my snare or add a virtual instrument layer to my beat.

Just adding simple computer integration to any current hardware MPC would have been cool a couple years ago. But now, it's about more than that. Especially when you got gear like Maschine and Reason and Pro Tools or whatever that has these high quality effects built in, and are taking MPC users from Akai left and right.

Also, again, not everybody samples. And every guy that doesn't sample doesn't have bread to spend on a bunch of hardware synths, especially vintage. And having a bunch of hardware synths doesn't help portability either, when you rely on those synths to make your music. So if Akai released a hybrid MPC that could not load VST instruments or even some form of their own high quality instruments like Reason as Coz said, what on earth would attract this customer to buy it over something like Maschine? These guys that have been making NON-SAMPLED hits for years on MPC's have not done them on MPC's alone!

And again, since you missed my other question. What is going to stop the computer from slopping up your sequence when connect in tethered mode when the MPC is trying to send midi notes to it?

I've already answered that, bounce if need be.

This is getting a bit boring now, i'm not gonna fight you on this.

I just want a portable MPC that is portable..out!

Retrofreak wrote:1. I've already answered that, bounce if need be.

2. This is getting a bit boring now, i'm not gonna fight you on this.

3. I just want a portable MPC that is portable..out!

1. If a non-sampling producer starts off in standalone mode, what is he/she gonna bounce? If they start off in tethered mode and are working on a fairly huge beat with multiple sequences and patters, and want to take it out in standalone mode, they bounce it, what fun will it be working with huge audio files that can't be manipulated? You have not addressed this. One guy suggested "freeze per pad" which is the best solution given so far, but IMO doesn't really help for VI melodies.

2. No need to fight! Just answer the questions instead of just dismissing the idea completely!

3. MPC 500! Even takes batteries!

There's no way you're gonna get what you want in the thinness of a Studio!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:1. I've already answered that, bounce if need be.

2. This is getting a bit boring now, i'm not gonna fight you on this.

3. I just want a portable MPC that is portable..out!

1. If a non-sampling producer starts off in standalone mode, what is he/she gonna bounce? If they start off in tethered mode and are working on a fairly huge beat with multiple sequences and patters, and want to take it out in standalone mode, they bounce it, what fun will it be working with huge audio files that can't be manipulated? You have not addressed this. One guy suggested "freeze per pad" which is the best solution given so far, but IMO doesn't really help for VI melodies.

2. No need to fight! Just answer the questions instead of just dismissing the idea completely!

3. MPC 500! Even takes batteries!

There's no way you're gonna get what you want in the thinness of a Studio!

Hellfire, I've already explained how it's possible to get what I want within the thickness of an MPC Studio.

"Micro SD card, Battery, Linux or mobile OS, USB tether to REN Software".

For the last time I don't need VST's in an MPC Studio in standalone.

Is bouncing not the same basic concept as freezing?.

It's all been explained and getting tedious now.

I'm on your side, chill relax and talk about something else now...please!

Retrofreak wrote:Hellfire, I've already explained how it's possible to get what I want within the thickness of an MPC Studio.

"Micro SD card, Battery, Linux or mobile OS, USB tether to REN Software".

Great! What about an audio i/o board? What about the CPU/Mobo/Ram? What about midi i/o? I think a midi jack alone is the same thickness as the Studio.

Retrofreak wrote:For the last time I don't need VST's in an MPC Studio in standalone.

OK, but this isn't just about the Studio version, nor just you or just I! It's about the technology and CURRENT needs of the majority today. Not what peoples needs were 10 years ago! And there are people interested in the Ren that are complaining about lack of standalone as well. Not just people like you that want something portable like a Studio.

Retrofreak wrote:It's all been explained and getting tedious now.

I'm on your side, chill relax and talk about something else now...please!

OK, but people are still complaining about lack of standalone in threads that have nothing to do with the subject. That is why I made this thread so that it can be discussed here, rather than derailing other threads about other issues. And it's not me bringing it up in other threads!

Retrofreak wrote:Is bouncing not the same basic concept as freezing?.

Yes it is. So how do you get around the issue below?

DJ Hellfire wrote:Here's my point. And I'm being really conservative with the track count, as I usually have 10-17 different tracks in my beats, mostly stereo.

Scenario (MPC Ren is able to run standalone and has audio tracks capability):
[*] Say my beat session is 24-bit, 48K.
[*] On my sample track I have a Waves EQ and a Ping Pong Delay (Stereo).
[*] On my snare track I have a Reverb, Scarlett EQ and Compressor (Stereo).
[*] On my Kick track I have another Scarlett EQ and Compressor (Mono).
[*] On my hat track I have an EQ (Mono).
[*] My bass line is made from an instance of Trilogy VST (Mono).
[*] I also have a fill in melody I played from my Massive VST (Stereo).

I have 3 sequences, an intro, a main, and a hook, all with different patterns for the sample, drums, bass, and melodies and they are all 8 bars each.

So that's 6 different instruments with 3 different variations each, all with VST's on them. So that's 18 different parts I have to freeze/bounce in order for my beat to sound the same in standalone mode. At 95 BPM, that's 0:20 worth of audio for each of the 18 parts, and you double that for the stereo tracks. So 9 audio files @ 0:40 and 9 audio files @ 0:20. So that's 9 minutes worth of 24-bit 48K audio that needs to be played back in ram.

So now I'm in standalone mode, all my tracks are frozen, cool. Only now, since all my performances are now made of 8 bar chunks of 24-bit 48K audio, I can't play the beat live. My only option to be able to play the beat live and still have that same sound would be to go in and rechop everything into individual sample hits to be manipulated live.

And even if I don't want to play live and just want to work on my beat away from home, I can only add to it. I can't change anything that was already done since the audio is all in chunks. If I rechop and edit anything, it's not going to reflect the same feel as when I get back into the studio and connect to what I had originally done as the original beat sounded. Totally kills the vibe IMO.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:Hellfire, I've already explained how it's possible to get what I want within the thickness of an MPC Studio.

"Micro SD card, Battery, Linux or mobile OS, USB tether to REN Software".

Great! What about an audio i/o board? What about the CPU/Mobo/Ram? What about midi i/o? I think a midi jack alone is the same thickness as the Studio.

Retrofreak wrote:For the last time I don't need VST's in an MPC Studio in standalone.

OK, but this isn't just about the Studio version, nor just you or just I! It's about the technology and CURRENT needs of the majority today. Not what peoples needs were 10 years ago!

Is bouncing not the same basic concept as freezing?.

Retrofreak wrote:It's all been explained and getting tedious now.

I'm on your side, chill relax and talk about something else now...please!

Yes it is. So how do you get around the issue below?

DJ Hellfire wrote:Here's my point. And I'm being really conservative with the track count, as I usually have 10-17 different tracks in my beats, mostly stereo.

Scenario (MPC Ren is able to run standalone and has audio tracks capability):
[*] Say my beat session is 24-bit, 48K.
[*] On my sample track I have a Waves EQ and a Ping Pong Delay (Stereo).
[*] On my snare track I have a Reverb, Scarlett EQ and Compressor (Stereo).
[*] On my Kick track I have another Scarlett EQ and Compressor (Mono).
[*] On my hat track I have an EQ (Mono).
[*] My bass line is made from an instance of Trilogy VST (Mono).
[*] I also have a fill in melody I played from my Massive VST (Stereo).

I have 3 sequences, an intro, a main, and a hook, all with different patterns for the sample, drums, bass, and melodies and they are all 8 bars each.

So that's 6 different instruments with 3 different variations each, all with VST's on them. So that's 18 different parts I have to freeze/bounce in order for my beat to sound the same in standalone mode. At 95 BPM, that's 0:20 worth of audio for each of the 18 parts, and you double that for the stereo tracks. So 9 audio files @ 0:40 and 9 audio files @ 0:20. So that's 9 minutes worth of 24-bit 48K audio that needs to be played back in ram.

So now I'm in standalone mode, all my tracks are frozen, cool. Only now, since all my performances are now made of 8 bar chunks of 24-bit 48K audio, I can't play the beat live. My only option to be able to play the beat live and still have that same sound would be to go in and rechop everything into individual sample hits to be manipulated live.

And even if I don't want to play live and just want to work on my beat away from home, I can only add to it. I can't change anything that was already done since the audio is all in chunks. If I rechop and edit anything, it's not going to reflect the same feel as when I get back into the studio and connect to what I had originally done as the original beat sounded. Totally kills the vibe IMO.

I've stated clearly that I'm happy with the REN as it has no need to be portable.

The Studio should be able run samples in standalone.

Midi i/O = usb micro port with breakout cable
Audio interface = multi port with breakout cable.
Motherboard?? = look in side your mobile phone or Raspberry Pi derivative.
CPU = Mobile ARM A5/ Tegra 3 processor etc

Retrofreak wrote:I've stated clearly that I'm happy with the REN as it has no need to be portable.

The Studio should be able run samples in standalone.

Midi i/O = usb micro port with breakout cable
Audio interface = multi port with breakout cable.
Motherboard?? = look in side your mobile phone
CPU = Mobile ARM A5/ Tegra processor etc

Break out cable is a good idea although I prefer solid, non-dangling cables.

But the motherboard idea you suggested, not so much! The mobo in my phone is able to be that size because it's a phone, and a touch screen at that. An MPC has several different pieces of hardware that need to connect/plug in to the motherboard. I doubt this would work out! The cable/wire thickness alone needed to have high quality balanced TRS audio connections would be too heavy to solder to such a small board!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:I've stated clearly that I'm happy with the REN as it has no need to be portable.

The Studio should be able run samples in standalone.

Midi i/O = usb micro port with breakout cable
Audio interface = multi port with breakout cable.
Motherboard?? = look in side your mobile phone
CPU = Mobile ARM A5/ Tegra processor etc

Break out cable is a good idea although I prefer solid, non-dangling cables.

But the motherboard idea you suggested, not so much! The mobo in my phone is able to be that size because it's a phone, and a touch screen at that. An MPC has several different pieces of hardware that need to connect/plug in to the motherboard. I doubt this would work out! The cable/wire thickness alone needed to have high quality balanced TRS audio connections would be too heavy to solder to such a small board!

They'll simply have to make a new logic board.

I'd monitor digital for the most part

Audio wise they could replace the jack ports for a jack/optical output like a

Macbook.

DJ Hellfire wrote:The mobo in my phone is able to be that size because it's a phone

isn't that the case with the 1000/2500 as well?