The reason it's not standalone! Technically speaking.

mr_debauch wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:The mobo in my phone is able to be that size because it's a phone

isn't that the case with the 1000/2500 as well?

I don't know, but the data wheel is apart of some huge ass board itself, in the 2500 at least. Even still, given all the shit already crammed into the studio, I can't see where something like I raspberry pie would fit, especially not without being crammed close to the edge of the case!




EDIT: Here's the mobo for a 2500. Pretty **** huge!:

Hellfire I have to disagree with you mate (only read your first post not all the thread so sorry if this is repeating anything). The processing power is available:

http://www.AuriaApp.com/

Key Features:

Up to 48 tracks of simultaneous playback
Record up to 24 tracks at once
VST plugin support
AAF Import and Export
Fully featured multitrack editor
Includes plugins from PSPaudioware, Fabfilter, and more

That's on an iPad, where the latest model is available for pre-order at £400. That blows the Studio out the water IMO. Now I appreciate these plugins are in iOS format right now, but it just shows what can be done in such a small footprint. And once that gets developed further there's going to be mountains of iOS VSTs available. And I imagine that Apple will make these compatible with Logic/Garageband for the exact reasons were discussing standalone.

I mean f*ck... Akai had access to the same technology and they've delivered an app with 4 tracks. That's disappointing.

Regarding the connectivity issue, there's smaller MIDI connections that can work as both MIDI In and Out with the right cable. My Tenori-on has one, and it's a good few years old now. So again, that basic connectivity is available too which wouldn't make these newer MPCs horribly thick. Same goes for audio connectivity, there's always options available to reduce the thickness of a product.

So really all the building blocks are there it's just a case of investing time and money. I honestly can't help but feel this entire product range is a bit lackluster.

scoobylol wrote:Hellfire I have to disagree with you mate (only read your first post not all the thread so sorry if this is repeating anything). The processing power is available:

http://www.AuriaApp.com/

Key Features:

Up to 48 tracks of simultaneous playback
Record up to 24 tracks at once
VST plugin support
AAF Import and Export
Fully featured multitrack editor
Includes plugins from PSPaudioware, Fabfilter, and more

That's on an iPad, where the latest model is available for pre-order at £400. That blows the Studio out the water IMO. Now I appreciate these plugins are in iOS format right now, but it just shows what can be done in such a small footprint. And once that gets developed further there's going to be mountains of iOS VSTs available. And I imagine that Apple will make these compatible with Logic/Garageband for the exact reasons were discussing standalone.

I mean f*ck... Akai had access to the same technology and they've delivered an app with 4 tracks. That's disappointing.

Regarding the connectivity issue, there's smaller MIDI connections that can work as both MIDI In and Out with the right cable. My Tenori-on has one, and it's a good few years old now. So again, that basic connectivity is available too which wouldn't make these newer MPCs horribly thick. Same goes for audio connectivity, there's always options available to reduce the thickness of a product.

So really all the building blocks are there it's just a case of investing time and money. I honestly can't help but feel this entire product range is a bit lackluster.

OK, but those iOS virtual instruments are not on the same level as actual VST instruments. Some of these VST libraries take up more space than the biggest iPad you can buy offers. The Komplete 8 set by NI is like 140GB alone. Storage size aside, there's no way an iPad could handle multiple instances of studio quality VI's on that level. A single VST instrument can use at least 8 times as much ram as an iPad has. Shit, a Waves L3 limiter alone would probably crash an iPad. I can't see these iPad instruments being of the same depth and quality as a true VST, at least not when it comes to VI's made from sampling natural/mic'ed instruments!

In the near future I can see massive sound libraries like Komplete streamed and buffered via the Cloud on to small lightweight devices like Netflix or Onlive.

Retrofreak wrote:In the near future I can see massive sound libraries like Komplete streamed and buffered via the Cloud on to small lightweight devices like Netflix or Onlive.

I think that would destroy your midi performance even more than "low level" cpu tasks would, especially over wifi!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

Retrofreak wrote:In the near future I can see massive sound libraries like Komplete streamed and buffered via the Cloud on to small lightweight devices like Netflix or Onlive.

I think that would destroy your midi performance even more than "low level" cpu tasks would, especially over wifi!

Not really the key is in how its buffered.

STEAM has proved this, ive been playing fighting games in HD with no lag or intensive CPU usage.

With Komplete your not constantly loading sounds anyway.

If your talking about the future, thats where it's going imo.

DJ Hellfire wrote:OK, but those iOS virtual instruments are not on the same level as actual VST instruments. Some of these VST libraries take up more space than the biggest iPad you can buy offers. The Komplete 8 set by NI is like 140GB alone. Storage size aside, there's no way an iPad could handle multiple instances of studio quality VI's on that level. A single VST instrument can use at least 8 times as much ram as an iPad has. ****, a Waves L3 limiter alone would probably crash an iPad. I can't see these iPad instruments being of the same depth and quality as a true VST, at least not when it comes to VI's made from sampling natural/mic'ed instruments!

VST Instruments I will completely accept, it's a way off yet. But honestly within the next couple of years it WILL be very possible I have no doubt. Having said that, if you've heard the Moog app you'll know the power that can be harnessed with good programming.

In terms of VST effects which is more what I was getting at, it's clearly there. Also dude I wouldn't write off these effects because they're on an iPad. There's FX on my Emu sampler that are f*cking amazing and it's the best part of 20 years old. Again, it's more about the programming than the amount of juice these things take. The fact that PSP are prepared to put their name on it says a lot to me.

I mean I'm only using the iPad as an obvious example of what can be done in such a small footprint. In fact when you consider the iPad by modern standards, it's a portable solution, with limitations but rock solid stability. Sounds familiar to another box I use

scoobylol wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:OK, but those iOS virtual instruments are not on the same level as actual VST instruments. Some of these VST libraries take up more space than the biggest iPad you can buy offers. The Komplete 8 set by NI is like 140GB alone. Storage size aside, there's no way an iPad could handle multiple instances of studio quality VI's on that level. A single VST instrument can use at least 8 times as much ram as an iPad has. ****, a Waves L3 limiter alone would probably crash an iPad. I can't see these iPad instruments being of the same depth and quality as a true VST, at least not when it comes to VI's made from sampling natural/mic'ed instruments!

VST Instruments I will completely accept, it's a way off yet. But honestly within the next couple of years it WILL be very possible I have no doubt. Having said that, if you've heard the Moog app you'll know the power that can be harnessed with good programming.

In terms of VST effects which is more what I was getting at, it's clearly there. Also dude I wouldn't write off these effects because they're on an iPad. There's FX on my Emu sampler that are f*cking amazing and it's the best part of 20 years old. Again, it's more about the programming than the amount of juice these things take. The fact that PSP are prepared to put their name on it says a lot to me.

I mean I'm only using the iPad as an obvious example of what can be done in such a small footprint. In fact when you consider the iPad by modern standards, it's a portable solution, with limitations but rock solid stability. Sounds familiar to another box I use

I hear you! And I'm sure the iPad joints are great effects. But how many instances can it handle before your shit starts to glitch and crash? Also, the other thing is many of us have already invested hundreds and some thousands into VST's. So we want to be able to use them, not invest in an entirely different platform. However, if we did have to choose a new platform, this is why I like what Coz suggested, which is something along the lines of Akai actually including nice, high quality effects similar to what Reason offers, rather than going broke in the Apple Store or something similar.

Honestly I'm literally just throwing the iPad and that app out there as a rough benchmark of what CAN be done.

http://www.auriaapp.com/Products/auria

I mean those specs/screenshots are incredible. All that on something that's the same price as the Studio. And lets be honest here this is modern technology, even if the FX aren't the equivalent of the Waves plug-in, they're going to be very useable. Bundled things are getting better and better. I'm not even an iPad fan and I'm blown away by the prospect of that app.

Even if we consider something like the Teenage Engineering OP-1, it can be used as a controller with any MIDI capable software, and it's exceptionally portable. Not to everyones taste but still, you get my point.

I just think Akai could've done a lot more given their heritage and the current technology. What's on offer with these new products really doesn't seem like much to me.

scoobylol wrote:I just think Akai could've done a lot more given their heritage and the current technology. What's on offer with these new products really doesn't seem like much to me.

And I don't think it would have been any better if they made another hardware model that has no plugin capability!

DJ Hellfire wrote:

scoobylol wrote:I just think Akai could've done a lot more given their heritage and the current technology. What's on offer with these new products really doesn't seem like much to me.

And I don't think it would have been any better if they made another hardware model that has no plugin capability!

I think that depends on what the hardware did offer. For example:

1. Lithium Ion battery
2. Upgraded screen/RAM
3. About the size of the 1000

If they'd updated the effects and made them slightly more comprehensive, which really wouldn't be a hard task given the processing power I've already mentioned that is available these days at what seems to be a very reasonable price. I mean honestly man I'd be sh*tting myself for that.

Plug-in capability means so little to me personally, and I would happily sacrifice that for portability because it's something I take advantage of on a regular basis. When the time comes for plug-ins I have a computer, so personally I don't see the point in doubling up on software functionality just so I can include a flashy new controller.

Afterall the reason the MPCs workflow is so unique is the fact that it's streamlined and efficient. One of the main reasons I got my 1000 was so that I didn't have to worry about unlimited plugins and 15GB libraries of sound. And then of course the stability etc...

Obviously this is all IMO, but I think Akai are moving into territory which the MPC doesn't belong in at all. It was never about having every function in a single box, ironically it was about NOT having everything under the sun clogging the musical process.

IMO IMO IMO Etc... I don't even own a VST instrument haha.

I dont care about portability. Everyone is fascinated by minaturisation. Heck if they made an MPC with and engine, wheels, some seats, thats all the portability I need.

labcoats wrote:I dont care about portability. Everyone is fascinated by minaturisation. Heck if they made an MPC with and engine, wheels, some seats, thats all the portability I need.

Same here!

scoobylol wrote:I think that depends on what the hardware did offer. For example:

1. Lithium Ion battery
2. Upgraded screen/RAM
3. About the size of the 1000

If they'd updated the effects and made them slightly more comprehensive, which really wouldn't be a hard task given the processing power I've already mentioned that is available these days at what seems to be a very reasonable price. I mean honestly man I'd be sh*tting myself for that.

Plug-in capability means so little to me personally, and I would happily sacrifice that for portability because it's something I take advantage of on a regular basis. When the time comes for plug-ins I have a computer, so personally I don't see the point in doubling up on software functionality just so I can include a flashy new controller.

Afterall the reason the MPCs workflow is so unique is the fact that it's streamlined and efficient. One of the main reasons I got my 1000 was so that I didn't have to worry about unlimited plugins and 15GB libraries of sound. And then of course the stability etc...

Obviously this is all IMO, but I think Akai are moving into territory which the MPC doesn't belong in at all. It was never about having every function in a single box, ironically it was about NOT having everything under the sun clogging the musical process.

IMO IMO IMO Etc... I don't even own a VST instrument haha.

This point you make is exactly the reason I don't see the need for another hardware MPC. You say you don't need VST's until it's time to go to the computer. This is why I'm having a hard time understanding why you need a unit with better effects, when your DAW, which you end up using any, already offers. And upgraded RAM for samples? I've NEVER needed anymore ram than the 1000/2500 offers and I sample a lot, as you'd know if you heard my stuff. So I don't see the need for having more ram, unless of course you up the audio bit rate and resolution. Upgraded screen is not necessary over what is currently offered IMO. The only useful thing I can see is the battery, but even that I'd be afraid of it dying mid note or me forgetting to charge it and it being dead when I need to go to use it. None of this really seems like something that would attract many perspective buyers today, especially when you got shit like the iPad you mentioned. I mean, stuff you mentioned is nice, but it's not something I'd go out and spend money on given what I already have and what else is available! Nothing you mentioned would make me replace an MPC 1000. IMO tho!

And I have to say, I agree with Jah. Akai is simply going where the market is. If there was a market for hardware MPC's/drum machines, and manufacturer would be stupid not to meet the demand. Akai didn't go out of business and get bought out by Numark because they were meeting the demands of customers with hardware MPC's. If there was such demand, the original Akai would likely still be a flourishing business! Look at Apple!

DJ Hellfire wrote:This point you make is exactly the reason I don't see the need for another hardware MPC. You say you don't need VST's until it's time to go to the computer. This is why I'm having a hard time understanding why you need a unit with better effects, when your DAW, which you end up using any, already offers.

Let me break it down... I have an iMac. Portability is NOT an option. So what I want from a new hardware MPC is the ability to throw it in a bag as I've done with my 1000 and go.

On top of that I'd like slightly more comprehensive FX capability, because lets be honest on the 1000 they're not fantastic. And with all the processing power that's available now, I think it'd be useful to have more options/routing.

The main point of this is that I don't want to be chained to my computer. Even if I end up polishing things off and bouncing down in Ableton. I want the option of being 100 miles away, or on a train, or in a hotel, or at a friends house who doesn't have a DAW.

Just because you jizz on a girl doesn't mean you want to spend hours talking to her first. You just want to use her for the final touches. That works sort of haha.

DJ Hellfire wrote: And upgraded RAM for samples? I've NEVER needed anymore ram than the 1000/2500 offers and I sample a lot, as you'd know if you heard my stuff. So I don't see the need for having more ram, unless of course you up the audio bit rate and resolution. Upgraded screen is not necessary over what is currently offered IMO. The only useful thing I can see is the battery, but even that I'd be afraid of it dying mid note or me forgetting to charge it and it being dead when I need to go to use it. None of this really seems like something that would attract many perspective buyers today, especially when you got **** like the iPad you mentioned. I mean, stuff you mentioned is nice, but it's not something I'd go out and spend money on given what I already have and what else is available! Nothing you mentioned would make me replace an MPC 1000.

Upgraded RAM absolutely. Again, I'm not saying I want 4GB or anything silly, but something slightly more comprehensive. It's a personal thing, and I'm sure there's people out there who would welcome the option. As you say working at a higher bit-rate or whatever, or for more complex arrangements.

I only mention the screen because that type of LCD screen is somewhat dated now. Again, it's a personal preference on my dream MPC. It'd be interesting if it was colour and you could assign different colours to different sequences on screen like our old pal Ableton. Or at least slightly higher resolution.

In terms of the iPad, it's more about highlighting what can be done in such a wafer thin piece of metal. I still don't like the workflow on them, and I'd rather have it's guts in an MPC shell with buttons and a jog wheel BUT running JJOS.

I swear if JJ ported his OS to an app that worked with the Fly it would change my world.

DJ Hellfire wrote:And I have to say, I agree with Jah. Akai is simply going where the market is. If there was a market for hardware MPC's/drum machines, and manufacturer would be stupid not to meet the demand. Akai didn't go out of business and get bought out by Numark because they were meeting the demands of customers with hardware MPC's. If there was such demand, the original Akai would likely still be a flourishing business! Look at Apple!

To be honest I think the reason Akai were going tits up was more because the products they've delivered of late haven't been the best quality, and they've lacked any customer support. That will kill a company off just as quick as anything else. Korg have still released a sampler, Elektron, Teenage Engineering etc... I think Roland too have had a new sample pad thing out lately.

The original Akai would only still be flourishing if they'd upgraded their standalone units accordingly, which they didn't and of course supported their customer base, which again they really didn't. Even when I got my 1000 I thought USB 1.1 was a joke, and the build quality has been shocking.

IMO there will always be a market for dedicated hardware units. Computers are good, but one mans all-in-one is another mans sterile environment. Given the current resurgence in analogue gear too, I can only see positive things happening in that area.

I agree Maschine has opened up this market and I can understand why Akai want to cash in, but as I said before I don't think it's where the MPC belongs at all.Having said ALL that... I can understand why some people are excited for these.