The reason it's not standalone! Technically speaking.

The original Akai had issues way before the MPC 1000 was released. And there was nothing sold on the market that could touch the MPC 3000LE and 2000XL. I saw the MPC 1000 as just a cheap imitation of what an MPC should be (wrote thousands of threads about my feelings on the 1000 when it was released).

The new Akai still owns this market even with its current line up...500, 1000, and 5000. Dropping the price of the MPC 2500...IMO...forced Roland do to the same with the MV. And they soon discontinued that product line. So in spite of what people feel about the new Akai (the MPC 2500 sh!ts on the MPC 2000XL)...they are still in business of making MPCs which I am thankful for.

As far as NI....no props are given from me because they were the "first." I will give them props if they can outdue what Akai is doing with the Studio/Ren...and actually stay in the business of making said units....not folding like Roland.

scoobylol wrote:Let me break it down... I have an iMac. Portability is NOT an option. So what I want from a new hardware MPC is the ability to throw it in a bag as I've done with my 1000 and go.

On top of that I'd like slightly more comprehensive FX capability, because lets be honest on the 1000 they're not fantastic. And with all the processing power that's available now, I think it'd be useful to have more options/routing.

The main point of this is that I don't want to be chained to my computer. Even if I end up polishing things off and bouncing down in Ableton. I want the option of being 100 miles away, or on a train, or in a hotel, or at a friends house who doesn't have a DAW.

Just because you jizz on a girl doesn't mean you want to spend hours talking to her first. You just want to use her for the final touches. That works sort of haha.

Upgraded RAM absolutely. Again, I'm not saying I want 4GB or anything silly, but something slightly more comprehensive. It's a personal thing, and I'm sure there's people out there who would welcome the option. As you say working at a higher bit-rate or whatever, or for more complex arrangements.

I only mention the screen because that type of LCD screen is somewhat dated now. Again, it's a personal preference on my dream MPC. It'd be interesting if it was colour and you could assign different colours to different sequences on screen like our old pal Ableton. Or at least slightly higher resolution.

In terms of the iPad, it's more about highlighting what can be done in such a wafer thin piece of metal. I still don't like the workflow on them, and I'd rather have it's guts in an MPC shell with buttons and a jog wheel BUT running JJOS.

I swear if JJ ported his OS to an app that worked with the Fly it would change my world.

I agree that an iMac ain't exactly portable! But I have to disagree on the 1000. I think it was a great little machine, function wise. The effects in it aren't that great, but they are as good as any MPC before it. The 1000 is a little beast and I'd use it over an XL any day. I only take points for parts quality, although I've only had pad issues with mine. Same for the 2500. I don't know why, but the paint job on my 2500 looks like I scrubbed it with a brilo pad! But function wise, they are solid, especially with JJ!

But I do hear you though! Still doesn't sound like enough for me to part with the $2000 or so it would cost. This is all currently available with the Beat Tang, which isn't exactly flying off shelves. I'm not really confident that if it had Akai's name on it that it would be too much more successful. Maybe I'm wrong! I don't know, seems the majority of people need more now-a-days. Not that everything we have is needed to make hits, as Retro pointed out. But we've had it for years now, so many of us rely on it; the same as many producers made hits without timestretch for many years before the XL dropped. Now everyone needs a unit with timestretch or it's a no go.

Plus, a lot of people do carry laptops now-a-days and don't have a problem with. And let's be honest, you wouldn't go to a hotel and not bring your laptop, or even to a friends how to make music. The train I can understand, but do people really do this????? So I can't really see this peeling them away from a cheaper unit like Studio or Maschine for portability. I'm sure some people will buy it and be happy, but I doubt after a couple years, it would be enough to have been worth Akai's while. If this product came out 3 or 4 years ago, I think it would have been highly successful. But now with the momentum Maschine has picked up and the popularity of laptops (especially MBP's), I just can't see the value, IMO!

scoobylol wrote:To be honest I think the reason Akai were going tits up was more because the products they've delivered of late haven't been the best quality, and they've lacked any customer support. That will kill a company off just as quick as anything else. Korg have still released a sampler, Elektron, Teenage Engineering etc... I think Roland too have had a new sample pad thing out lately.

The original Akai would only still be flourishing if they'd upgraded their standalone units accordingly, which they didn't and of course supported their customer base, which again they really didn't. Even when I got my 1000 I thought USB 1.1 was a joke, and the build quality has been shocking.

IMO there will always be a market for dedicated hardware units. Computers are good, but one mans all-in-one is another mans sterile environment. Given the current resurgence in analogue gear too, I can only see positive things happening in that area.

I agree Maschine has opened up this market and I can understand why Akai want to cash in, but as I said before I don't think it's where the MPC belongs at all.Having said ALL that... I can understand why some people are excited for these.

I don't know, I think Akai went up because people were realizing they could just get a cracked copy of Fruity Loops and didn't need MPC's to make hits! But seriously, it seemed as if Akai faded as computer production became more popular, affordable, and accessible. And it just so happens Akai wasn't apart of this market with the MPC. MPD's seem to be highly popular, but it's still controlling someone else's software. Plus, other companies started throwing MPC style pads on their controllers. I personally think they took MPC's exactly where they needed to. And the name is really irrelevant, because as you have pointed out, they have made poor hardware units using the same name!

Bottom line, I'm not against a hardware or hybrid unit. I think if they make a real hybrid, it has to absolutely shit on every piece of competition in sight and make everyone step their shit up.

DJ Hellfire wrote:1. Yes, but the major factor here is that most people already have a laptop or computer. The majority of people aren't going to have to buy a computer just to use the Ren. So that $700 is a non factor.

2. Sounds good for drums and short one shots, but what about melodies from virtual instruments? Would you freeze each single note of the pattern? You have accommodate the tails of each note which would take even more storage space and ram. Even on the short one shots/drums being frozen per pad, what about the tails on a snare you ran through reverb? It could sound un-natural if you have that snare on mono polyphony. If you have the snare on multi polyphony, then the reverb on it can become crowded if you do a repeat snare hit every 16th note. And what about the fact that your snare/kick/hat pad may be played at different velocities throughout the pattern. If you freeze only the pad and not the pattern, how would those variations be reflected in the "frozen" state?

Wow !! So many posts since i last checked!!! Awsome buzz these products are getting...

Hellfire 1. I agree that people already have laptops and computers... But to run all those vsts and plug in instruments(especially those 2.4gb ni piano contact pgms!!!) i seriously doubt that most of the market will have a puter that already that will be able to handle what they would want to throw at the ren and be able to to it in under 5ms non drifting latency... They would soon learn about latency (if they don't already know about it) And would spend more time tweaking and researching how to streamline their computer to squeeze as much juice as they can just so they can perform a simple piano riff for two bars to have a nice feel about it.. I know that's what i struggle with after i've layered a few too many tracks with vsti's..



2. internal akai vsti patch convert(so you would still be able to write midi note events with the akai converted patch and then when you connect back to hybrid mode it would reload the vsti or unfreeze the akai pgm..)... As i would see that if you wanted to go standalone the feature would suit someone who would need it for live use or putting down midi instrument scoring/playing ideas which you could engineer later in your studio in hybrid mode. And getting back to specs.. for standalone, surely its available to be at least something along the lines of dual core 3.ghz cpu with even 4bg ram with the ability to stream playback/record from hard disk.. already half way there with the mpc5000 except for cpuram/spec..

here's something i was thinking along the lines of, but i haven't used this before so i can't really vouch for it...
http://www.extranslator.com/

by the way anyone in the phoenix area of scottsdale? I'm coming over from aus and wanna hook up with some heads while i'm over? or possibly check out some live shiz around the area...

dazastah wrote:
Wow !! So many posts since i last checked!!! Awsome buzz these products are getting...

Hellfire 1. I agree that people already have laptops and computers... But to run all those vsts and plug in instruments(especially those 2.4gb ni piano contact pgms!!!) i seriously doubt that most of the market will have a puter that already that will be able to handle what they would want to throw at the ren and be able to to it in under 5ms non drifting latency... They would soon learn about latency (if they don't already know about it) And would spend more time tweaking and researching how to streamline their computer to squeeze as much juice as they can just so they can perform a simple piano riff for two bars to have a nice feel about it.. I know that's what i struggle with after i've layered a few too many tracks with vsti's..



2. internal akai vsti patch convert(so you would still be able to write midi note events with the akai converted patch and then when you connect back to hybrid mode it would reload the vsti or unfreeze the akai pgm..)... As i would see that if you wanted to go standalone the feature would suit someone who would need it for live use or putting down midi instrument scoring/playing ideas which you could engineer later in your studio in hybrid mode. And getting back to specs.. for standalone, surely its available to be at least something along the lines of dual core 3.ghz cpu with even 4bg ram with the ability to stream playback/record from hard disk.. already half way there with the mpc5000 except for cpuram/spec..

here's something i was thinking along the lines of, but i haven't used this before so i can't really vouch for it...
http://www.extranslator.com/

by the way anyone in the phoenix area of scottsdale? I'm coming over from aus and wanna hook up with some heads while i'm over? or possibly check out some live shiz around the area...

Good point! But remember, we are entertaining the idea of an MPC having VST capabilities built-in for standalone mode.

But let's entertain that computer issue anyway. Computers, even laptops are becoming more and more powerful every month. No sense dumbing down the software to compensate for out of spec computers. This time next year, there's gonna be even more computers owned that can handle higher resource demanding VST's. Many store bought computers are shipping with standard 64-bit OS and at least 4-6GB of ram. Also, plugins themselves are becoming more and more efficient. So I think this wouldn't be a problem for the majority of people that are actually serious about computer based production.

And think about it, not everyone will be using those huge resource hogging VST's. Those that do, like me, will already have a computer that can handle the plugins they want to use, which they are most likely already using. This idea is for people that currently use these types of products and have the hardware to handle them. Obviously, people that have computers that cannot handle these products do not use these products, at least they shouldn't be. Ownership of a Ren will not change or alter that scenario. If I'm already currently using these products with other software hardware, owning a Ren will not increase or decrease my computer's ability to use the products. If I do not use these types of products, owning a Ren will not increase or decrease my computer's ability to use these products. So the issues you fear are a non-factor!

However, let's say the MPC with built-in VST capability was struggling to keep up with the VST's. What if the MPC had built-in freeze ability as well? That way anything you don't need to manipulate could be frozen while you work in other areas to preserve resources. That way at least if you need to modify a frozen part, you just simply unfreeze and edit it right on the spot instead of having to wait til you connect back to the PC/Mac. Although with enough ram an no computer OS to run, I doubt this would be an issue on an MPC, especially if they make the ram up-gradable similar to that of a computer!

It seems some of you guys are approaching this thinking that just because someone buys a Ren, that they are gonna go out and stock up on a bunch of plugins that their computers can't even handle. That is not the case. Well, there might actually be some idiots out there that do, but that's beside the point. Remember, a good portion of people are already using VST's with other products. Owning a Ren will not screw that up. And owning a Ren will not force you to have to use VST's. If you don't wanna use them, then simply don't!

JAH wrote:The original Akai had issues way before the MPC 1000 was released. And there was nothing sold on the market that could touch the MPC 3000LE and 2000XL. I saw the MPC 1000 as just a cheap imitation of what an MPC should be (wrote thousands of threads about my feelings on the 1000 when it was released).

The new Akai still owns this market even with its current line up...500, 1000, and 5000. Dropping the price of the MPC 2500...IMO...forced Roland do to the same with the MV. And they soon discontinued that product line. So in spite of what people feel about the new Akai (the MPC 2500 sh!ts on the MPC 2000XL)...they are still in business of making MPCs which I am thankful for.

As far as NI....no props are given from me because they were the "first." I will give them props if they can outdue what Akai is doing with the Studio/Ren...and actually stay in the business of making said units....not folding like Roland.

Don't think ROLAND is folding,they're actually in a good position,by watching the market.If the REN does well,ROLAND will have reason to respond.Trust me the MV800 is no joke,it actually set all this in motion. if they came out with something similar, it would be a hard decision for me between the the REN and whatever they make.

This is a great discussion on a popular and somewhat misunderstood concept.

Not to digress from the point, but I read this way way back on page one and thought it was worth mentioning again:

peterpiper wrote:what about this concept?

http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php/en/ ... v-machines

to minimize the RAM usage it might help to support lossless audio compression (on computer AND standlone) just in case you really need audiotracks. otherwise the vsts are played directly. You dont need (freezed) audiotracks.

peace

I found a video showing some of the sounds on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz-0-PnAtGI

The desktop unit is selling for around $600. For what it is, that is really not a bad price. Especially for people who are not giving two shits about handling a computer in their creative environment (the point I am personally at right now).

It comes pre-packaged with many VST instruments and processors already, but you can add ones that you already use. It's a win-win in my book.

The only thing I can see as a drawback is not having more than just stereo audio outs. However if you are in the mixing/tracking phase you could probably connect to your DAW via USB to do that (though I didn't read far enough in yet to confirm that).

DJ Hellfire wrote:

dazastah wrote:
Wow !! So many posts since i last checked!!! Awsome buzz these products are getting...

Hellfire 1. I agree that people already have laptops and computers... But to run all those vsts and plug in instruments(especially those 2.4gb ni piano contact pgms!!!) i seriously doubt that most of the market will have a puter that already that will be able to handle what they would want to throw at the ren and be able to to it in under 5ms non drifting latency... They would soon learn about latency (if they don't already know about it) And would spend more time tweaking and researching how to streamline their computer to squeeze as much juice as they can just so they can perform a simple piano riff for two bars to have a nice feel about it.. I know that's what i struggle with after i've layered a few too many tracks with vsti's..
...

Good point! But remember, we are entertaining the idea of an MPC having VST capabilities built-in for standalone mode.

But let's entertain that computer issue anyway. Computers, even laptops are becoming more and more powerful every month. No sense dumbing down the software to compensate for out of spec computers. This time next year, there's gonna be even more computers owned that can handle higher resource demanding VST's. Many store bought computers are shipping with standard 64-bit OS and at least 4-6GB of ram. Also, plugins themselves are becoming more and more efficient. So I think this wouldn't be a problem for the majority of people that are actually serious about computer based production.

And think about it, not everyone will be using those huge resource hogging VST's. Those that do, like me, will already have a computer that can handle the plugins they want to use, which they are most likely already using. This idea is for people that currently use these types of products and have the hardware to handle them. Obviously, people that have computers that cannot handle these products do not use these products, at least they shouldn't be. Ownership of a Ren will not change or alter that scenario. If I'm already currently using these products with other software hardware, owning a Ren will not increase or decrease my computer's ability to use the products. If I do not use these types of products, owning a Ren will not increase or decrease my computer's ability to use these products. So the issues you fear are a non-factor!
....

It seems some of you guys are approaching this thinking that just because someone buys a Ren, that they are gonna go out and stock up on a bunch of plugins that their computers can't even handle. That is not the case. Well, there might actually be some idiots out there that do, but that's beside the point. Remember, a good portion of people are already using VST's with other products. Owning a Ren will not screw that up. And owning a Ren will not force you to have to use VST's. If you don't wanna use them, then simply don't!

HERE! HERE! To all of the above.

And we can always use samples. Take that VST sound after you sequence it and record it as a sample. No latency issues there. Not sure how well that works for DANCE music but for HIP HOP...it works.