fustrating s900 interface!

So right. Its not difficult to use all sorts of means to dirty up the sound. I cited Kontakt cos that's what I often use and its great for tweaking the sound real time with its time warp feature and all. For assigning and playing percussion I often use Battery too.

Thing is, the modern software can enable you to do stuff much faster and more flexibly than old gear like the S900. I used my S950s and S1100 for over a decade and can program them with my eyes shut as quickly as is possible but it got to a point when I had to say adios to them because I can get the results I want much more swiftly using the soft stuff.

The MPC is totally different. The stuff I create using that I can't achieve so quickly and directly using modern software. If I could, I'd ditch the MPC like a shot. Its not about tools its about results and I'll happily use anything from a crapped out 4 track reel to reel to a full blown Pro-tools rig if it gets me what I need.

Morris wrote:So right. Its not difficult to use all sorts of means to dirty up the sound. I cited Kontakt cos that's what I often use and its great for tweaking the sound real time with its time warp feature and all. For assigning and playing percussion I often use Battery too.

Thing is, the modern software can enable you to do stuff much faster and more flexibly than old gear like the S900. I used my S950s and S1100 for over a decade and can program them with my eyes shut as quickly as is possible but it got to a point when I had to say adios to them because I can get the results I want much more swiftly using the soft stuff.

The MPC is totally different. The stuff I create using that I can't achieve so quickly and directly using modern software. If I could, I'd ditch the MPC like a shot. Its not about tools its about results and I'll happily use anything from a crapped out 4 track reel to reel to a full blown Pro-tools rig if it gets me what I need.

thats fine and dandy, some people just prefer thier methods, some people don't use computers.....

no doubt. Theres nothing wrong with using rack samplers or soft samplers. its all how u use em.

To me it is about the tools. I like the man machine interaction, it is my main inspiration, results and speed don't dictate my setup. The means of production is just the instrument you prefer to play. I can play a hammond sound in my samplers or from a soft synth, but playing a real hammond gets much better music out of me. Not that I get a chance to play one very often, but when I can I will.

elmacaco wrote:To me it is about the tools. I like the man machine interaction

Now this what I don't get. What else is a computer and a controller?. I wonder if people are afraid of them or something. If you've got a good system that doesn't **** up regularly then what's the difference?. You get a big screen or two to facilitate the editing, the controller of your choice which gives you hands on control over whatever parameters you want. And the sample sound can be changed to sound as dirty or clean as any rack gear. But you wont have to squint over some LCD and scroll through a list of options page after page or get RSI from repeated function pushing.

I mean, with the S950 and all we're not talking about a Hammond organ, we're not talking about a vintage Moog system or an old VCS3. Those instruments DO have a very unique sound and a way of controlling that sound that still cannot be completely replicated using software (although the recent Arturia Modular Moog sounds damn close to my modules - it would take a serious expert to now the difference).

I am a very big fan of the MPC concept and design, all the machines. They are just so well integrated and playable. I don't believe they can swing better than soft sequencers, I don't believe they can do things that no other combination do BUT they can sample, map and sequence percussion quickly and elegantly and that is worth gold to me.

OK, I've said all this but of course I respect that people just prefer things a different way. But its worth thinking that sometimes things that don't have so much kudos in a certain style are kind of villified without even being tried. Its about thinking away from what everyone says and trying these things out - I mean seriously trying them out in an open-minded way - for yourself. I was married to my rack gear for many years but times change, music changes, age changes.....

Morris wrote:

elmacaco wrote:To me it is about the tools. I like the man machine interaction

Now this what I don't get. What else is a computer and a controller?. I wonder if people are afraid of them or something. If you've got a good system that doesn't **** up regularly then what's the difference?. You get a big screen or two to facilitate the editing, the controller of your choice which gives you hands on control over whatever parameters you want. And the sample sound can be changed to sound as dirty or clean as any rack gear. But you wont have to squint over some LCD and scroll through a list of options page after page or get RSI from repeated function pushing.

I mean, with the S950 and all we're not talking about a Hammond organ, we're not talking about a vintage Moog system or an old VCS3. Those instruments DO have a very unique sound and a way of controlling that sound that still cannot be completely replicated using software (although the recent Arturia Modular Moog sounds damn close to my modules - it would take a serious expert to now the difference).

I am a very big fan of the MPC concept and design, all the machines. They are just so well integrated and playable. I don't believe they can swing better than soft sequencers, I don't believe they can do things that no other combination do BUT they can sample, map and sequence percussion quickly and elegantly and that is worth gold to me.

OK, I've said all this but of course I respect that people just prefer things a different way. But its worth thinking that sometimes things that don't have so much kudos in a certain style are kind of villified without even being tried. Its about thinking away from what everyone says and trying these things out - I mean seriously trying them out in an open-minded way - for yourself. I was married to my rack gear for many years but times change, music changes, age changes.....

quit trying to get people to convert to YOUR way of doing things.....Some people work on computers all day long and don't want to go home and make music on one, some people PREFER the buttons and knobs of hardware vs a mouse click...some people don't want two monitors to stare at while making music...some people like HEARING it instead.....

simply put, you do you.......no one is asking you to change your ways....

I'm not trying to convert anyone. Just enquiring as to wether people have always thought through why they do something the way they do. Sure. on the net it probably looks like I'm going off on one, but man I'm just sitting here chilled with a beer in hand with a genuine interest. Its just a thread that interests me, that's all. Sometimes this place seems a bit dead so there's no harm in opposing points of view.

Whatever, I'm done.

Nah, this is an interesting discussion. I have a friend that kills it in logic, does everything on it and makes great music. he is a results kind of guy, he's always wanted instant recall of songs, which sysex just can't do on nthe level a computer can. I started with software, and it can be very good, but even in software the GUI is make or break, and how people react to it varies.

Me, I like finding the best interfaces for me to express my creativity. I don't find the computer to really do that, plus there is also a certain sound to computer based production that needs a lot of tweaking to get away from, sometimes even hardware (most things produced on reason in the top 40 have gone through ssl's and pultec's).

As for the arturia modular, the basic tone is great, as is the NI stuff like the pro 53, but on the arturia, try an FM patch with sweeps, or a sync's oscillator sweeped, and you won't need to be a real expert to tell the difference. I guess I might qualify as a real expert as far as analog goes.

computers with controllers or a mouse just don't cut it for me as far as sequencing goes. I can creat great sounds on the computer, but I enjoy the process a whole lot more when I do it with hardware, my eyes don't get tired, I discover much more using well designed machines.

I do not have an S950, but I have an emax, and it is quite similar, and all the trouble it may be to sample into it is enjoyable and fun, plus I get really great sounds from it. loading samples into a computer may be quicker, but it skips a very magical part of my creative process.

The ends don't justify the means to me, I've made great tracks using software, but I like the music I make with hardware more, regardless if I'd lose a race or not. It is all trade offs, and you have to base your decisions on what is important to you. Most of the computer guys say they can get the sound with the software, but it takes much more effort than on a machine that just sounds great.

Oh and as far as swing goes, who cares? so you can apply different templates and get beats you didn't expect, wonderful, that's not so important to me, I write my stuff how I want it, and I don't want to just hit a button and have it sound different than I intend it to.

My buddy and I had a race, there was a classic hip hop beat done on an sp 1200, and he said he could dupe that beat faster than I could on the 60, so we raced. After a minute of trying different swing settings I got it spot on, while 20 minutes later he was still dragging notes and trying templates. score, 60: 1, computer: 0. sometimes having too many options can blind you to the creative fire that gets the ball rolling.

The sound of things inspire me, when I get my drums in my 60 I can write for days, just the sound alone brings different elements. It might be the same for people using computers, but I have found the major difference between us is that people who like the efficiency of a computer are about the final product and not the process as long as it's fast. I think this is largely illusion, there are speed ups and slow downs on both approaches, it just comes down to what is most important to you.

But if you like, I'll take those moog modules off your hands

elmacaco wrote:
But if you like, I'll take those moog modules off your hands

I'd take them to bed with me if my wife would let me

That's all I'm after, just an interesting case made for why people prefer their methods. Thanks Elm, you're an interesting guy.

yeah, some people like the scenic route, others wish they had a teleporter. Then there are those in between.

I change regularly. I'm on the MPC like 50% of the time and on the PC the rest of the time, really depends on what mood I'm in and what type of music I feel like doing.

pUs wrote:I change regularly. I'm on the MPC like 50% of the time and on the PC the rest of the time, really depends on what mood I'm in and what type of music I feel like doing.

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