live show ableton question

hey, when you guys perform using ableton, how much do you break down yourdrum tracks?

do you create clips out of each individual drum, or do you create clips out of the entire drumline bounced down?

i'm having trouble conceptualizing how i'm gonna do this without too much granularity/complexity. i realize that the live versions of my songs will be simpler than my studio versions...

your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Nym wrote:hey, when you guys perform using ableton, how much do you break down yourdrum tracks?

do you create clips out of each individual drum, or do you create clips out of the entire drumline bounced down?

i'm having trouble conceptualizing how i'm gonna do this without too much granularity/complexity. i realize that the live versions of my songs will be simpler than my studio versions...

your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Hi Nym - I want to be upfront. I don't perform in front of peeps, but I've got years of experience with Ableton so I might be able to suggest some options.

A lot of times if I'm working with a VST like Geist, I will create specific clips based on the portion of the song I think I will want to trigger. So I might bounce the following combinations to audio clips -
- Intro clip 1 (hats only)
- Intro clip 2 (hats + toms)
- Main clip 1 (hats, toms, + kick drums)
- Main clip 2 (hats, toms, kicks, + claps)
- Solo clip 3

Something people sometimes overlook early on, is that you can name your columns containing clips (S1: Percs, S1: Synth1, S2 Percs, S2 Synth) individual clips within the column (hats, percs only, all, solo kick) as well as the master row which launches all clips in the row (Intro 1, Intro 2). Assign columns to your faders (the A/B squares at the bottom of the column) and you can start laying out your set in a single project.

Finally, another (but not last) option is to create your patterns within the VST and send the individual instruments to unique outs within Ableton. I do this with Geist sometimes when I want to assign a different VST effect to each drum part for example. Then I just pattern switch within the Geist using similar techniques as above.

One last thing. I know you're not afraid to get your hands dirty, so if you haven't already, check out Max for Live. It opens up a larger world of possibilities than the ones that are already available to you in the standard program.

Hope this helps.

I dont perform live with Ableton but I were to I would definitely bounce the entire drumline to a clip but also bounce the same drumline with rolls or fills for turnarounds or transitions. I think it could get confusing to trigger seperate clips for kick/snare/hihat going.
I would also recommend checking out Blockhead's LIVE FROM NY for some pointers and tips on using Ableton in a live setting. He used nothing but a laptop with ableton for that live set, no controller or even a mouse!
Peace

....I would also recommend checking out Blockhead's LIVE FROM NY....


Here is the youtube link to Blockhead - LIVE FROM NY

__http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkrLkZfABDk

I generally render my drums down into 4 tracks - kick/snare/hats/perc-misc. If there is a section where all the drums have automation/heavy fx/etc, then Ill bounce them down all together. Also, with certain fills too...
I'll group those individual tracks into one main drum track. I can then trigger/mute both the entire beat on the main grouped track or on the separate tracks within the group. I can just minimize the drum group if things get too cluttered or its not the type of set where Im messing with individual drums so much. Also, enables me to have particular fx on some or all of the drums.
The way I play can change at times depending on the type of set Im doing (with a band or purely ITB) but I'll still usually prepare the beats like this as its a good standard workflow for me and has saved me time (later on) for when I want to get more intricate with the drums or just messing about.
It really depends on what controller (APC/LP/TF/etc) you are using in the end (how many knobs/faders/buttons) but I try and keep it down to under 8 grouped tracks for all sounds and instruments, though less is even better! If Im not using live/midi instrumentation, 5 group tracks is about my average atm ie. beats, bass, chords, melody, one shots.
Im quite influenced by Tom Cosms way of working and have a similar-ish initial preparatory method to what he explains in the video below....if you dont know him, he has lots of great, free Ableton tutorial videos floating about that are worth checking out.....either way, this one may give you an idea or 2 for preparing your set

http://vimeo.com/1701545

Ive found using a standard colour coding method for my clip groups eg.bass-blue, guitar/melodies-green helps alot esp when your set gets bigger....using follow actions is very handy too to keep a lid on things if youve gone too crazy glitching the crap outta something and need to get the song back on track....