Chopping breaks Shadow style....

Hey all!

I'm a complete newb here and for the last few months have been slowly getting up to speed with my MPC4000 in complete isolation.......as you can probably imagine it's been a bit of a drag at times!

I was wondering if any enlightened souls out there could give me a few choice tips on how to chop and reprogram drum breaks in the style of DJ Shadow? I don't wanna copy his style as such.....I just thought it would be beneficial to learn how the greats get their beats sounding so natural!

I used to live in San Fran and would occasionally see the great man himself whilst out digging........as a result of spending all my hard earned on vinyl, I got inspired to see if I could start chopping and rearranging all those dusty drum sounds into new arrangements....

Trouble is, I just cannot figure out how to get a nice flow going once I've sliced up my breaks.......and it's killing meeeee!!!

I've tried to copy certain tracks like for like.......examples being "Lost and Found" using the U2 drum break, and "Dreams of a Piece" which uses the Young Holt "Wah Wah Man" break......both fairly simple drum arrangements by Shadow's standards...

http://l-r-g.com/blog/2012/04/23/dj-sha ... iece-1992/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWY8_Zuu1zM

BUT, I just don't know how small (or large?) to chop the slices, and I can't figure out if Shadow was quantizing his chops or just playing them in naturally?!?

I have read a few interviews where Josh gave a little insight into his methods, but I haven't come across anything that explains how to technically go about programming on the MPC!


I know I've been rambling here, but I'm kinda at the end of my tether trying to figure this out on my own!!!

If anyone could shed even the faintest bit of light on advanced drum programming, I'd be eternally grateful.........if not, I might just end up selling my 4000 and go back to just playing records in dingy back rooms, ha!!!



Yours frustratedly, Dandroid X

this video I did explains how to chop a break up evenly, if you read between the lines and pay close attention, everything you're questioning is answered. The main thing not in this video is that the break needs to match the sequenced tempo, thats where the "art of djing" comes in handy in regards to beat matching.

This is how shadow probably chopped it. He only used the 4 chops that I marked with different colors (he probably doesn't even chopped the two kicks to single ones). There is one part (at 7.5 seconds where the snarepart (orange) play and he played an additional kick in that part.
this is how it looks like
upper row: original WahWahMan Drumbreak with the colored chops
mid row : the chops arranged as in the shadow track
lower row: shadow intro drum


And this is how my version sound compared to shadow (I didn't really eqed just added a bit lowend so the sound of the shadow track is not recreated)




I recommend to just chop 2 or 3 parts of a drumbreak (interesting moments of a break) and just a few solohits with a long tail but no other drums in it. Then just play around with the parts and don't try to control to much. Let the dope drumparts play for itself and only hit the solohits when you need to fill up something..

And another tip. If you wanna know how this or that producer/beatmaker chopped up a sample then load that song and the original to your DAW and listen to the parts and look at the zoomed in waveform. You can hear and see how the things have been done.


peace

Hahaha, that's an ill break down peterpiper! Shit, you nailed that programming!

Damn! If that's not a good way of explaining it, I don't know what is. Dope thread!

when chopping breaks i find that chopping into eights rather then sixteenths keep the drums sounding organic...bigger chops but mute each other out when triggered.

as a crate junkie another thing people dont always realize is shadow doesant chop alot of drums he loops alot and throws the chops at the end of a sequence to give the beat climax....sometimes more is less when **** with drum breaks.

Holy crap!!!

Just checked up on my thread and I gotta say I'm blown away and humbled by the quality of the responses.......nice one guys!

I already sussed a fair bit out from Arkyve's 4000 vids, so gotta respect that! AND I couldn't have asked for a better visual break down than Mr Piper's.......I owe both you guys!

To be fair, I almost had it figured out this afternoon after I posted........I just was having problems tightening things up in the sequencer so the chops didn't lag or cut each other off too quickly! At first, I was leaving a bit of air in front of the transients......then I started tightening up the hits. Does anyone have an opinion on these two methods and whether or not they can work in the same sequence?


Maaaan, I feel like I'm still learning to crawl here.......drum programming's one thing, but trying to compose a joint that'll get heads a noddin' is something else entirely! I just keep looking up every now and then and seeing a big mountain of vinyl I gotta clamber up...........baby steps man, baby steps...


Props to all posters.......aaand anyone else who has anything to say feel free to pitch in.....the more advanced, the better! I really hope this thread helps a few other novices out aside from just me...


Thanks again, Dandroid X

Thanks man, good stuff.