the "this isn't mixed/mastered" excuse

what are your thoughts on this?


i say bullshit... your source material should blend well and you should be able to make something decent straight out the box (mpc, sp, software, anything)... like any instrument, the goal is to come up with something that sounds dope as is.. it shouldn't need additional processing and mastering. the mpc's filters, eq, and compression are good enough for getting a dope sound... and software, you should easilyyyyy be able to make it sound decent.

im just sayin... instead of saying "oh its just not mixed, it'd sound better if it way mixed.." just make it sound better! work towards that i mean, learn how to do that.. try new tricks.. for hardware use filters on your high and low end separately to prevent frequencies from clashing, figure out how compression works...

when it comes to mixing and mastering... the better the original source material sounds, the better the final product will sound. ideally, the engineer or producer shouldn't have to fix everything when it comes to the final mix down.

personally, i used to stand behind the "its not mixed/mastered" excuse.. but then i learned its not that hard to strive for a decent sound at least.. those extra few steps make a world of difference.

beats are not like models and photoshop and makeup.. with those, you take away the special FX and its not anywhere near the same.. but with beats, you take away the mastering and yea certain things change.. but its not nearly as drastic.. the raw beats gotta sound dope... even a 128 kbps mp3 on laptop speakers should sound dope.. u feel me?

ok end rant lol

In present time if your a "producer", in order to compete with every one you have to be an Engineer. You have to understand how everything functions. Its no longer one sided you have to be able to do it all, but hey my thought on the "this isn't mixed" excuse is fine with me, that eliminates competition and allows me to shine. Im always trying to stay up top. Gotta 1 up every one you can. If they don't wanna mix it, kool my shits always going to sound better quality wise.

This last year I've realized this....even though sometime's it's still hard to achieve that sound, I still try to soak up new information and techniques/processors to always try to achieve the sound that I want. Recently, I've found that high quality samples, good quality/the right drum sounds, and then then simply side chaining the bass behind the kick will make stuff sound at least decent right off the bat. Side chaining really cleans that low end up since you don't have to push the bass or kick to let them be heard....I slept so long on it and finally had an "ah ha" moment when I found out what it actually was. I agree with you, but I'm guilty at the same time...trying to get better, though!

I'm guilty
Think about bad acoustic / monitoring environment with sound that doesn't represent whats really goin on. Your sample can be good as it is but as soon as you EQ a bit (lets say raise the sub of a kickdrum) you don't really know how this will sound in the end in a good acoustic environment.
My room sounds so effed up its really a pain making good sounding music. I know this is no excuse cause I should hear the beats on different gear and in different rooms anyway but this is also the part I really don't like about making music. So my beats are mostly sounding bad. BTW thats the reason I don't really upload stuff.

But to be honest, I know what you mean and I dont like this excuse too

peace

peterpiper wrote:I'm guilty
Think about bad acoustic / monitoring environment with sound that doesn't represent whats really goin on. Your sample can be good as it is but as soon as you EQ a bit (lets say raise the sub of a kickdrum) you don't really know how this will sound in the end in a good acoustic environment.
My room sounds so effed up its really a pain making good sounding music. I know this is no excuse cause I should hear the beats on different gear and in different rooms anyway but this is also the part I really don't like about making music. So my beats are mostly sounding bad. BTW thats the reason I don't really upload stuff.

But to be honest, I know what you mean and I dont like this excuse too

peace

Very true, which is why I usually why I do mine with headphones most of the time. I just play a reference track that I think has a similar sound to what I am going for, and then try with my limited knowledge to emulate that mix, that way I know that I'll at least be in the ballpark with headphones.

peterpiper wrote:Think about bad acoustic / monitoring environment with sound that doesn't represent whats really goin on.

Thats a good excuse lol My room doesn't sound all great either but theirs always a way around it. I think once you understand your room your mixes will sound much better.

imo, stuff does sound better when its properly mixed, but it should not sound terrible right out of the box either, its all about sound selection and getting the right levels.

if you can get the levels right when printing a two track mp3 it should pretty much always sound good enough to record to.

i usually never print reverbs/delays/time based efx compression or eq on rough mixes, and they still sound alright.

es-k wrote:im just sayin... instead of saying "oh its just not mixed, it'd sound better if it way mixed.." just make it sound better!

T*H*I*S

A bloody raw steak is a bloody raw steak.

It's a shame the chef forgot to add pepper and salt, but I can definately taste that this is a good piece of meat, well prepared with a lot of passion.
Would have been perfect with the pepper and salt, but I understand what the chef was trying to do.


Same shit with unmixed beats.

Menco wrote:A bloody raw steak is a bloody raw steak.

It's a shame the chef forgot to add pepper and salt, but I can definately taste that this is a good piece of meat, well prepared with a lot of passion.
Would have been perfect with the pepper and salt, but I understand what the chef was trying to do.


Same **** with unmixed beats.

bollocks imo, even when i watch alleged low quality youtube vids of cats like grap love, pete rock, black milk, alchemist, dj khalil.

they play unmixed beat strait out the box and it sounds huge and pristine, i recall an interview with buckwild where he states his un-mixed 2 track beats what hittin harder then the fully mixed shit.

same with dilla shit out the mpc3k sounded dope as it.

as for the room excuse again thats a cop because when u put a play a dre beat in ur shit room the shit still bangs so no reason why ur beat made in the box in the same room should not also bang.

this whole it aint mixed is just like when cats say no samples to justfiy some wack shit.

I am not one of these audiophile sound nazis. That said, people seem to have this idea that there is an all in one box that is the answer to everything. Professional music production is actually professionally done. People spend a lifetime learning a craft, and now you have sophomoric youth wanting to force poor quality on people.
I can understand that when money is tight, and you have a dream, that you would think that you are going to make something out of nothing and it can be done in minimal fashion.
Ask yourselves, do you think an SSL desk was made willy nilly? Or an LA-2A compressor? These items are made for those who understand and respect the craft and the nuances of the craft.
Of course you can mix, master and record in much of the gear created in the consumer market, and yes computers now have every C averaging high school student claiming they are a producer. People gleefully state that sampling is preferable, and sound quality be damned, as long as you get heads nodding.
Then they wonder why songs don't have staying power, or why a personality can sell music better than quality music, or why poor production can be heard so commonly in hiphop.
I am hear to tell you, back in the day of ghetto blasters, break dancing, and project basement parties with MCing, people cared about sound quality. The bass and the drums had to be on point but the hook was always in the uniqueness of the sound. A producers credibility was on the line always because cats in a dance crew would not bump his music. Now a sucker producer, or MC gets chances and feels no shame because there is no penalty for whackness!
Some of the old heads in here might remember that people got shot for biting rhymes and beats.
This is not a rant, I am typing this with a smile. All I am saying is that you should take pride in your work, put out the best quality you can, and actually do the WORK. If you are just a hobbyist well then you don't matter in this debate. However if you want to be famous, and respected well then you pretty much know that the quality matters. Compressors, eq, converters, mixing desks, good microphones, mastering and an eye for detail give you that professional sound. No one product will do it. Look at your favorite albums and note where they were mastered at.
If "good enough" matters to you...good luck, rock on.
If you are calling yourself a "pro" and making excuses, just know people are laughing at you.
cheers,
Ian

PS some background on me:- "I was a young kid at those parties with my older siblings and cousins. I remember hearing Busy Bee as a six year old. Those same cousins, who I will not name, have won awards and have married and divorced professional rappers and musicians. Another family member in the game(in Jamaica) has won an award for mixing one of Sean Paul's songs. Sean Paul Henriques and I went to Belair High school together. In college in Philly, I became friends with Amir (?uestlove), Jill Scott, and far too many other professional artists to name. I am a lawyer now, I'm in a band and occasionally still dj a party or two."

es-k wrote:what are your thoughts on this?

A lot of people don't really know how to get the sound they want, or they are oblivious to a few techniques to take their music to that next level. Everyone wants their stuff to sound on a scale somewhere between "raw" and "polished", but even to get a decent raw sound takes some work. That's the nature of mixing elements from different sound sources. There's nothing worse than shit that's raw because it's just badly produced.

I've heard music coming out of Nym's MPC n my jaw dropped that he got it to sound like that

I dunno.. sometimes I really apprecciate raw (unmixed/-mastered) honnest sound.

I don't think I judge music by how well or how poorley it's mastered or mixed.

**** man It's still about art. Or are we all engineers?
I know a couple sound engineers( and people who want to become engineers) through my job.
And I tell you that much: there's a lot of snobbery goin on.
Like people thinkin they ear is so **** special or sumthin..

Nah look at those old records we all love to sample from, and think about why we do so.. IMO One reason is that it's pretty raw ( as far as I know there was no such thing as sidechain compression in the 70's .. or am I wrong?)
The other is cos it's just great music( with it's rough edges and all those lil "flaws")!!
and that should be the main criteria. IMO is it dope?

I have much more to say on this topic then the following, but because I don't have regular access to the Internet here is my mobile phone response.

Mixing to a certain extent is required during production to create a cohesive sound. The best thing to do is mix your source material as much as possible so the mixing engineer doesn't have to try and salvage a poor source.

That being said, production and engineering are seperate processes, and you shouldn't let them bleed into eachother to much if you want to maintain a decent workflow.

During tracking engineering you should do your best to make your sounds feel mastered coming in. By that I meen, pre recording EQ and compression/dynamics effects should be applied as needed to get a good source into the tape deck/daw/multitrack (what have you).

If you've done these things right the mixing engineer should do little more than balance levels and check frequency spectrum analysis to make sure the mix is cosy. Any other effects and overdubs should be applied now that the source material is. When mixing, drums and bass are the critical components that glue a mix together, and their presence should be considered the greatest in many(but of course not all) mixing situations.

Mastering (more on this later)

I'll expand on this topic when I have a more viable way of doing so, I'm passionate about the stages of making a record (production/tracking/mixing/mastering) and how they all contribute to a finished mix.