Anyone Figure out A Work Around Yet?

Hey guys, I know many of you are already aware of the phasing issue when layering. I just want to know what you guys have been doing for a workaround to this. Let me explain my situation first. I chopped up some samples and in the background of these samples is a very nice bass line. I do not want to just eq this chop progression to bring the low frequencies out as this will wash out all my mids and high frequencies. So what I wanted to do is create a duplicate of this track (obviously make a copy of the program and assign the copied track to the copied program) and then bring the low frequencies out of this copied track giving my chop progression a nice bassline without making it sound like garbage. THis always worked with everything else I have worked with except the MPC =(. What happens is it starts to phase and completely cancels out what I am trying to do in the first place. I tried to offset the pitch of the copied program a little bit, but that seems to intensify the phasing effect. Can anyone inform me of any little tip or trick in this case so the layered track with the low frequencies bumped up does not phase out the original?

Bounce it and use the good parts.

Thanks for the response Coin, although, I don't exactly understand. Are you speaking of some type of resample?

Yep! Or track it in DAW and use the good parts.

What do you mean good parts? I tried to resample the chopped melody track, and used that to layer over the original, and i STILL got the phasing. Do you I have to resample twice maybe?

I do not want to just eq this chop progression to bring the low frequencies out as this will wash out all my mids and high frequencies.

why do you think this? a filter is nothing but a blunt EQ.

layering a sample with a filtered version of the same sample is the same thing as EQing the original sample, except you end up wasting an extra voice or 2 of polyphony and you also get phasing issues in non-sample accurate MPCs (all but the 4k, apparently)

you can achieve what you're trying to do by either boosting the low frequencies of your original sample OR
by dropping the mid/high frequencies of your original sample and increasing the volume. same thing.

Instead copying tracks, try to copy samples and filter those out. Split a single sample into seperate frequencies. Pad 1 would be the Low giving you that bassline, Pad 2 will be the Mid giving you the misc. instruments (minus bass, of course) and Pad 3 will be the High giving you chimes and hi hats (minus the bass and mids, of course). Thats how I do if the sample is mono but its even flexible when the sample is stereo, but you get the point.

And if you are worried about phase cancellation, well the 5000 can layer 4 samples on one pad. Since the samples are copies, they are trimmed exactly the same. So here's where mute groups and layer come to play...

Pad 1 - L1:low L2:mid L3:high

Pad 2 - L1:mid L2:high

Pad 3 - L1:low L2:high

Pad 4 - L1:low

etc. and however you prefer. Then use mute groups to so the pads don't layer on top of the other when you play them.

Thats my workaround, but you can take it to another level, which is why I'm giving you this trick because it can go beyond.

ill green Whitch filter you mean

low pass freq for low freq
high pass for high freq
and band pass for middle ???????????????

quote
Instead copying tracks, try to copy samples and filter those out

And if you are worried about phase cancellation, well the 5000 can layer 4 samples on one pad. Since the samples are copies, they are trimmed exactly the same. So here's where mute groups and layer come to play...

unfortunately, this will still phase if the clock on the 5k is like that of any mpc other than the 4k (apparently)

ssyniu wrote:ill green Whitch filter you mean

low pass freq for low freq
high pass for high freq
and band pass for middle ???????????????

quote
Instead copying tracks, try to copy samples and filter those out

I wouldn't recommend band pass for mids unless you looking for that clock radio speaker sound. Instead, balance out the high and low filters to make the mids stand out. The 5000 also has EQ, if your not satisfied with the filters then cancel out the low and high with that.

Nym wrote:

And if you are worried about phase cancellation, well the 5000 can layer 4 samples on one pad. Since the samples are copies, they are trimmed exactly the same. So here's where mute groups and layer come to play...

unfortunately, this will still phase if the clock on the 5k is like that of any mpc other than the 4k (apparently)

You could be right, lets see what the OP says but samples at different frequencies wouldn't phase much unless the frequencies are equal... so I think

Little miscomm Jigz. Thought you ment the bad timing issue with the 5000.

Ill Green, this is an interesting angle that I have not thought of. Could you help out further by getting into a bit more detail? In other words, correct me here, but I am interpreting your post as doing something like this:

Copy your slice on Pad1 to the other layers but put them in different mute groups? Then use filters within the fx panel? Wouldn't that filter apply to the entire pad and not each layer? Help me out here. It sounds like your on to something though.

Alright, when you copy a sample, rename it and it'll be a new sample. Put the low sample on pad1, mid on pad2 and high on pad3. I forgot to mention to resample those copies and then layer them under each other as desired. That way you'll have space for further FX.

Really you're turning your samples into tracks. Lets say you sampled a 4 second loop of a jazz outfit consisting of bass piano and drums. Make three copies of them and place them on pads 1,2 and 3, and then seperate the frequencies of each. Pad 1 - Bassline, Pad 2 - Piano, Pad 3 - Cymbals. Now resample those newly filtered samples and layer them how you would track them and then mute group them. It'll look like this:

When you hit Pad 1-The bassline, piano and cymbals play.

Hit Pad 2 -Piano and Cymbals play only.

Hit Pad 3 - Bass plays solo

Hit Pad 4 - Bass and piano play only

Hit Pad 5 - Cymbals and bass play only

and etc. (however you want to mix and match them).

Hope that helps, I don't even have a 5000

This doesn´t solve the bad timing issue with the 5000 when layering.......

Hmmm...still. A lot to think about. Thanks IG.