Anyone else feel left behind with the large LCD?

Jamon wrote:This forum is funny. It's both funny and frustrating to be told multiple times to calm down, stop freaking out, etc. when you're totally relaxed and mostly content. I'm laughing imagining what people must misread in the text.

This....

Anyone else feel left behind with the large LCD? No one should be as anyone can acquire it for a price of course or simply continue to use what you have been using prior to the new screens.

MPC-Tutor wrote:Okay, I see the first signs of this topic turning for the worse,,,

Aww c'mon you're a pro, it didn't take you that long. Admit it.


Almost surprised it's still going..



Not to single out any one individual (as there are multiple parties involved), I have to say this:

Sharing info in depth is great if the info is well researched and useful. Not so much when it's a bunch of redundant speculation based on ignorance, in this case ignorance not only of propritary software and openly available hardware documentation, but ignorance of the development history recorded in the forum unto which said redundant speculative ignorance is being posted. I can't remember seeing one of these types of threads coming from anybody who was here when most of the original adopters were still posting. How can you know where a project should be or can be going when you don't know what it is or where and what it came from?

To be fair about that history part -- some of that is hard to instantly search out, especially since the JJ team only communicates to this forum through liaisons. Searching Nym's (or maybe the old Antonym account) might be a place to start.. there was another guy who spoke Japanese too but to find him some people are gonna have to start doin' less typing and more reading cause I can't remember..

I've been thinking writing to some of the specific missconceptions but this thread is already too long and I don't want anybody to start thinking my posts are from "somebody else". Perhaps an entirely seperate topic of technichal/historical "perspective" might help, at least for quoting the next time this drivel starts to fester...

That's assuming it's sincere drivel, and not just trolling, of course.

elektrik_muz wrote:in this case ignorance not only of propritary software and openly available hardware documentation

what are you referring to here, exactly?

That's assuming it's sincere drivel, and not just trolling, of course.

what, on the internet? never...

One thing respect about Nym is that he has crazy ideas and then goes about implementing them! I'm envious of that follow through, it's a serious skill!

The features he wants and uses aren't what I want and use, but the creativity is inspiring and it often gives me ideas to solve problems I'm working on. I feel that by actually demonstrating and putting in the work to get the features he wants he's influenced JJOS development by showing people what's useful, rather than telling them.

We live I a great age for roll your own solutions to music technology interface problems with a unprecedented number of cheap, easy to use hardware and software options. There's no time like the present to get started!

innovine wrote:

elektrik_muz wrote:in this case ignorance not only of propritary software and openly available hardware documentation

what are you referring to here, exactly?

Akai doesn't build DSP CPUs, they buy them from manufacturers like Renasis who do. Those manufacturers publish plenty of online documentation so people who want to use their stuff know what it does. I've posted direct links to the SH7727 DSP CPU docs in this forum more than once for anybody who cares to actually look into it as opposed to just gabbing about it with a bunch of end users. Last time was that thread asking about a USB upgrade.

Try being a 2000 owner ! We get left out of everything JJ
now the big screen it's enough to make you wanna buy a 1000 I tell ya!

Maybe this thread should be removed, or moved to Off Topic. The consensus is that most people don't care, and are defensive about critique.

It's just so dried up here. XL was already tiny, with 10s of vocal users and a single developer. Without frequent updates, everything slows.

People can still use their MPC, but it's nice when your main tool has an ecosystem that keeps it growing and bringing life and exciting change.

Right now this forum has 20 users online. But most of that is spread between older models, the new Ren controller, and Off Topic entertainment.

Right now Ableton Live's forum has 100 users online; KVR has 430; NI forums (Maschine) have 609. They all have new posts today.

But there's nothing new here. There's no tips being shared, or people trying to learn. The front page list shows posts from nearly 2 weeks ago.

On the Maschine forum, the front page list only goes back until yesterday, because there've been enough posts since then to fill the page.

I view JJ OS as an anomaly, where it's the only PC-like system, that's not a PC. What other hardware acts like a PC, with software updates?

The others are static. They've got their hardware built, which can't be upgraded, and they've got their firmware, which is mostly frozen.

But the MPC, is like a PC built only for music. You can upgrade hardware components, and install 3rd-party software, that is everchanging.

For people who don't want to use a Windows/OSX/Linux environment for making music, the MPC + JJOS is the only similar alternative.

It should be alive. There are plenty of people who like dedicated hardware. But the silly manufacturers don't OPEN IT UP and capitalize.

It shouldn't be hard to see, that music and hacking go together. If you build a dedicated hardware device, people will mod and code it.

If you allow it. But they don't. Which is why the MPC + JJOS is an accidental rare situation where something that doesn't happen happened.

I thought Beat Thang had potential to go even further. It runs Linux, using the JUCE toolkit, and would be so easy to develop for.

I talked to Aja about it, and he was interested, in the idea of open sourcing after things got going, and letting it thrive unpredictably.

If someone built a MPC-like box, with DSP, LCD, buttons, knobs, sliders, pads, audio and MIDI ports, it'd compete with the PC.

With a free SDK and software license, people would develop for it, and it'd come alive. Then it would have PC-power, without windows GUI.

The music industry is so stupid. There's all these people upset about the internet and filesharing revolution, and moving the studio into windows.

You know how there's MIDI? That was invented. The hardware makers had to think, plan, and coordinate to make the MIDI ecosystem come to life.

The same thing could happen today, with newer stuff. Instead of having everyone using VST in Windows DAWs, there could be similar stuff in hardware.

There should be smart dedicated devices, that have newer protocols than MIDI, that work together in powerful ways, and have a PC-like explosion.

But it's like the music industry can't get their stuff together. All the thinking people moved to software on the PC, leaving the rest to scratch their heads.

But JJOS is an accident. It's not a clever plan by Akai, or JJ. Neither of them understand it, beyond what's right in front of their face.

So with the big LCD thing, it's more of that, where people go down whichever road is there, wandering in a direction going away from where I want.

I think that's fine, I just, feel left behind. It probably isn't going to go where I'd envision to be more fruitful. But what other roads are there?

I've tried. Since they weren't doing it, I attempted to build a bug database that could lead towards what I want to see. But this forum wanted it.

I asked JJ about SDK and if he wanted programmers to help, no response yet. I asked if they wanted help with website, they declined.

It goes beyond the MPC and JJOS. It's the idea, that the hardware should have open software development and collab protocols between them.

We absolutely should have PC studios, with audio interfaces, MIDI controllers, and software. But the other side has really failed to keep up.

There's no reason they should be crying about losing record sales to the internet, and going out of business not producing dedicated gear anymore.

It's all about ideas. If those are updated, then that side would thrive again. That requires letting go of concepts that don't thrive today.

JJ OS is in this fading chance to show people by example, a taste of what is possible. But it's wasted, as the hardware ages into irrelevance.

It's fine. MPC works as a tool. It just seems like there could be life in the dedicated hardware world that rivals that of virtual PC-based.

Big LCD and new OS is great, if done right. But JJ is still too trapped in the old model, so the opportunities to really run with this are missed.

But it's too late I think anyways. MPC2500 is discontinued, and MPC1000 is still expensive, and limited if there's no way to stream off CF card.

Probably better to just program for tablets and PC now, trying to make the interfacing experience better, as Akai is doing now with the Ren.

elektrik_muz wrote:That's assuming it's sincere drivel, and not just trolling, of course.

I've stopped assuming.

See, JJ isn't part of the user community in a sharing way. They don't participate in these forums, the backend development process is done in secrecy, so why do they get viewed here as part of a family?

I asked how many JJ OS users there were, hundreds, thousands, and they couldn't answer. Why? Surely they must have some idea. They track the number of downloads, they have records for the sales.

Why else couldn't they say? Probably because of secrecy. Which just makes them more of the same. The only thing that makes it any different than Akai is this apparently was Akai, before the company changed.

But that whole thing got mixed up, and this rogue operation resulted. They don't deserve such praise of a family type, and that is how people act, where they get defensive not based on fact but relations.

JJ is not your friend. They are not your fam. They are a closed operation that isn't very organized, and the software they produce has quirks, and even bugs. Why is it fair to dis Akai for this stuff and not JJ?

People act irrational here, hating something one minute, loving it the next, for reasons that aren't about technical facts. I watched Beat Thang get beat down, MPC5000, now Ren's status is being decided.

MPC-Stuff took a big risk with the big LCD venture, because although there was love at first, you could already see in that thread people's sentiment starting to turn, and it was like at any second they'd all be booing.

But mainly what they seemed to be booing about was JJ OS stuff, how it was missing features, and cost for a new upgrade. So why did it seem like the hate was going at the big LCD project, and not JJ?

Why is JJ untouchable, where any questioning of its decisions, any critique of its quality, is met with defense, and people standing up for him like it's fam. Do you even know it's a him? Who is JJ?

If it's a person, it seems more like Tom from MySpace. Everyone feels like he's their friend, when no one has ever really seen or spoke to him, and really it's just some business guy trying to make a buck.

JJ OS wrote:It cannot reply to this question.

Thank you.

> How many people buy JJ OS?
> What is number of users? Hundred? Thousand?

Jamon wrote:But there's nothing new here. There's no tips being shared, or people trying to learn. The front page list shows posts from nearly 2 weeks ago.

Huh? maybe read a thread or two there Jamon. It is not facebook, with a gazzillion updates a day is it. I think its up to us if we want to post, not really anything to do wih JJ or OS is it? It annoys me as I made a thread yesterday, and to me its a big idea, but you do not say anything jamon, so come on participate then. I mean I read all your stuff, and reply so give a little back there.
Oh and really, the noobs are in the other sections, so hence the lack of so tips and learning. I learn here, cos I lurk and read everything though, so I think thats a bad ccall really. You telling me you aint learnt anything on these here threads. hhmmmm really.

Your post in the bug section? I didn't see it. Since they only update 128XL with new features right now I haven't bothered much with the FR/BUG stuff lately.

I know there's some posts, sometimes. I know you post; I was just searching for a chord list and saw some of yours come up talking about wanting to be able to export them.

But you know what I mean. It was more active just months ago. Tutor could post a screenshot of the Google Analytics graph for the JJ OS sub-forum over the years.

There's plenty of old stuff to read, there's probably still lots of people visiting to read. It's the new development that's slowed.

There's not even anything posted about 128XL. Why? This is the JJ OS sub-forum, and there's new videos on YouTube, questions people might have. Why aren't there 128XL users talking?

its all good Jamon. look think of it as a hiatus and give you chance to consider things. We can always discuss things still, but it just might take longer. And this is meant to be a temp thing to so when they get all the bugs sorted out, then it shhould be back to normal operations.
PS I did not want to export pe day, just save them.(chord lib) At moment it is saved to ROM not disk. So this limits the ability to make more than 64 chords. Sounds alot but really, it is not. specially if you are doin major/relative minor scales of chords. that means only 8 scales total.
i think the 128 users are busy, you know testing it. Takes time. And well I actually appreciate that there is not a thread for every little idea, as it would be too much to read. But do read anything about it. It is interesting, but if it is not full JJOSXL (yet) then I am not interested till then. THey know that, and it is not for me really, more for the free JJOS users to upgrade.
No business has to tell you numbers of what they sell, so do not expect JJ to release this info to you , no matter how much a good idea it seems. It is not good business sense to do that at all. Its his business, would you tell me info about your business if you had one?? if you did you would not be in business for long in my opinion,.
To me, my new idea is killer, but it might not be doable at all, so you know i just put it out there, and try to explain the benefit to work flow or what it can do for you. And if every one gets on board we all can benefit if it gets implemented, that is how it works generally. I do not agree with every idea, but see others benefitting from it so do not fret or get vexed, but i will make it know to everyone I do not agree.. Looper is something i never use, but its kinda good its there, if I do want to use it, though I wont. makes sense lol ......
imagine how I feel, I been waiting a very long time for some things, but so have others to, and then I get another idea, knowing to well that i might have to wait years to see it. But by jingo, if I do see these things it will be like all my christmas's at once.

You can make 64 chords? How? I only found 32 slots.

Why isn't it good business sense? It's not like he has any competitors. I do have a business, and I openly share statistics with people who ask. I just wanted a general idea, if there's hundreds or thousands.

you miss understand me. If i set up scales of chords on every pad, which is 8 pads per scale, 2 scales per bank, 8 scales total. 64 chords on pads not 64 types. yes only 32 types and not nearly enough. see other post>
Look most business do not just tell people stuff, you do sure, but most do not. Just ask and see. Maybe if we can get a thread going that you can talk on for ever then you will forget about 'waiting for Godot', or was that JJOS.

Jamon wrote:Why isn't it good business sense? It's not like he has any competitors. I do have a business, and I openly share statistics with people who ask. I just wanted a general idea, if there's hundreds or thousands.

I think JJ operates in a "don't draw too much attention to what we're doing" kind of way. There could be a risk of "somebody" deciding they want to take it back from him.

Major forums and other sites are regularly crawled by corporations looking to put a stop to anything that even remotely infringes on their IP. For all the people who thought about who Big Brother was, it is, and will totally become, the corporations.

I have had a similar argument with a manufacturer of a 17 year old FX unit that is totally obsolete, out of production, unsupported and only in the (almost) last hours of its existence did it get MIDI sync. They will not even consider the idea of doing another run of OS Roms for a list of guys that need them. The OS will of course be pirated now (once we get hold of it from another machine) and a third party will make money off their creation instead of them. They would be better off licensing it for a limited run by the some of the people I know of who burn EPROMs rather than just telling people it will never happen.