Transpose function...Trying to break thru musical theory bar

Unfortunately as a youth man I wasn't into learning an instrument - this is putting some pretty serious limitations on my song writing at the moment - so have started trying to work out some basic theory to help to write better songs. A friend suggested using a basic chord such as A Minor or C Major and transposing to create the variations.

I have tried this on the 4K using the transpose command control in the main window to change the chords played off midi modules...but this is not sounding so good.

What is wrong with this theory? and can someone suggest a something similar that works? Or even explain why this dosen't work in simple terms.

Would be great to see some kind of scale diagram with transpose ratios etc...does such a thing exist?

Hopefully this embarrassing question has an enlightening solution!

a scale is just a set of 'offsets' from the root note. lets say the root note (c), in a major scale is 0 offset, next note d is 2 offset, next note e is 4 offset, f is 5, g is 7, a is 9 b is 11, and high c is 12.

point is, the root note doesn't matter - a major or minor or whatever 'mode' is always the same notes offset from the root note. so the second note in a d scale is an e - 2 note offset from the root. the third note is a f# - 4 notes offset from the root d.

now - as for transposing a single chord the same amount in the same song - that might start sounding jazzy and weird pretty quick. the trick is that transposing a chord an arbitrary number of steps will push some of those notes out of the scale. most songs stick to one scale...key changes can be very dramatic when used properly but id say save that for later.

i would say a simpler way of 'winging it' would be - play all the white keys. start at c for upbeat songs and a for downbeat songs (major / minor). then just make up chords with only the white keys. then you can transpose EVERYTHING.

but if you take a c chord, and transpose it up two notes, suddenly some of those notes are in a new scale - so it doesn't really work like that.

hope that helps some.

Aha - thanks for your explanation. So the theory is good as far as transposing individual notes in the C scale but not transposing the C chord as a whole! Thanks for clarifying that!!!

Any ideas about some kind of chart that would help - I have a basic piano chords chart, but apparently picking random chords from off the chart and combining them is not 'good music'. Have a basic understanding of chord relationships is reggae = 1,5,4. Rock 2,5,1. etc but need something similar to help my understanding some more.


Thanks!

Since the 4k is a 64 note polyphonic sound module, I'd say use a midi keyboard with it to make life easier.

If you work with three note basic chords, you'll learn that in theory what makes it major or minor depends on the middle note or the 3rd note, ie: C major will be C, E, & G. E is the 3rd note that makes this chord C major.

To make this same chord minor, you'll have to "flat" the 3rd, or drop the E to an E flat. If you practice this on a chromatic scale, meaning you go up or down a half step for every note, you can train your ear to hear the difference between major and minor chords.

Now this is just the begining. You can further your knowledge by adding additional notes on the tail end of these chords to make them 7th's, 9th's etc. But there's other chords that need to be learned other than just major & minor.

If you start with these two basics, this should help you identify the other types thus leading to knowing what works together and what doesn't. One thing that will help, and it my look foreign at first, is your circle of 5ths. Just do a search on what the circle of 5ths is all about.

thanks dab!

grassroots wrote:thanks dab!

Anytime G. I don't mind lending some of what I learned when I started playing keys back before sampling was invented.

The more you learn, the better you get. Plus you'll crave for more because your ears will start to adjust to hearing what's right & wrong.

Also another tip to help you along the way is to get with a guitarist that's pretty fluent in knowing his chords. This is one of the paths I had no other choice in taking, since I was forced into learning the piano while transitioning from sax to keys to cover that missing element in the band.

dabmeister wrote:I don't mind lending some of what I learned when I started playing keys back before sampling was invented.

Sampling dates back to the 1940's and I'm pretty sure you're not that old Dab!

Coz wrote:

dabmeister wrote:I don't mind lending some of what I learned when I started playing keys back before sampling was invented.

Sampling dates back to the 1940's and I'm pretty sure you're not that old Dab!

Well you're right Coz. I would have to tack on an additional 20 or so years to my age if I were to hold true to that.

BTW, I know I can't be the oldest kat around here. I'm sure there's somebody on here that's got me beat.

I know that Pilchard dude is knocking on a bit (48) so I don't know if he has you beat or not?!

Coz wrote:I know that Pilchard dude is knocking on a bit (48) so I don't know if he has you beat or not?!

Nah, I hate to admit it, but I'm proud of the fact that I'll soon be starting a new decade in life in a couple of months.

The good thing about this is....the D keeps on ticking and getting his share of the prize.

And another crazy thing to add is, the older you get, the more pu$$y you get to see thrown in your face.

It wasn't quite like this when I was young.

dabmeister wrote:

Coz wrote:And another crazy thing to add is, the older you get, the more pu$$y you get to see thrown in your face.

This comment sort of caught me off guard and made me chuckle.

Great info. too

dabmeister wrote:the older you get, the more pu$$y you get to see thrown in your face.

I can't wait to get old like Dab and Pilchard, maybe Lampdog too. Get some pussy thrown in my face too...

clint246clint wrote:

dabmeister wrote:the older you get, the more pu$$y you get to see thrown in your face.

I can't wait to get old like Dab and Pilchard, maybe Lampdog too. Get some pussy thrown in my face too...

i want to learn some keys as well. does anybody know any good online resources? anything geared towards beat makers?

wiki is where everything is. problem is that its way complicated at first. Start with scales then keys, then chords. then its onto all different types of chords like sus and aug ect. then polychordal scale relationships, and different types of modes. then composition. a few years later .....