m56p87 wrote:^Wouldn't there still be some discrepancy even with a sync pulse? Due to midi jitter of the machine? I mean when it comes to older machines..
I think that to get it multitracked into a DAW, in separate passes/takes, you might not get the sync between multiple passes/takes much tighter than visually lining up a sync pulse at the sample level of zoom in a DAW.
Maybe to minimise the effects of MIDI jitter on that single timing pulse, put a pulse every 8th or 16th across the 'sync bars', try and line up the passes to best fit all the sync pulses, so you can average it out and ensure that the jitter of a single sync pulse/sound does not throw it off too much.
Maybe all this is really unnecessary, and would not improve the timing and feel of of the end result audibly at all, I suppose it really needs to be tested to confirm that there are issues with losing the internal MPC sequencer feel when tracking in multiple passes while synced using MIDI, and that doing this will improve things to any noticeable degree.
I think I remember reading, years ago when syncing up Tascam DTRS multitrack tape machines to Pro Tools, using a MOTU Digital Timepiece, that the closest repeatable start point that is possible within the MIDI Timecode spec was within 1 quarter frame of the timecode. So, if you are using 25 fps for your timecode, the starting point each time you pressed play shifts around randomly anywhere within one quarter of 1/25 of a second of where it should be. So, if my memory is correct, when using MIDI Timecode for sync, you are always going to have this random 1 quarter of a frame timing slop of where the start point is, each time you press play and the two machines sync up, so you are virtually never going to get an exact sample accurate sync between different passes if using MTC.
To get the true/exact feel of the MPC, you would probably have to turn MIDI sync off all together, and track in to the DAW with the MPC using it's own internal clock, rather than synced to an incoming MIDI clock from the DAW.
This might mean that the DAW tempo map has to be matched to the tempo of the recorded audio from the MPC, after it is recorded into the DAW, as the internal MPC tempo might/will not be at exactly the same tempo as the internal DAW session tempo, if not synced when tracking.
I think I remember reading that in the MPCs, or some other gear, that the timing of the sequencer is different when locking to an incoming clock signal, rather than the internal clock. I can't remember what gear it was, but I think it dropped the internal timing resolution, when synced to an external clock source, from 96ppq to 48ppq, or even 24ppq.
'If' the MPCs do this, which I am not saying they actually do, then it would change the feel of your beats/sequence, if that sequence had notes that fell outside of the timing resolution when synced, as they might be moved on playback from a 96ppq timing 'grid'/resolution when on the internal clock, to a coarser synced 48ppq or 24ppq resolution when running on a synced clock, for example.
So, there could actually be a number of timing related issues when using MIDI Timecode for sync between the MPC and a DAW...the start point of each separate pass/take could be moving around between those separate passes/takes, the internal MPC sequencer might use a different timing resolution when synced to incoming MTC, and there could be jitter in the MIDI Timecode signal coming out of the DAW and into the MPC, there could even be jitter within the MPC sequencer playback that changes slightly between takes/passes, all impacting on the original tightness and feel of the MPC sequence once recorded into the DAW when using MTC.
mumkai wrote:this is a good idea and i think ive done this before just not as in depth. ive heard some dryness or just something 'rhythmically' lacking to my beats and think if used this method more then id get the whole feel of what im going for.
It might be worth experimenting with it, trying the different sync/recording methods possible, to see if you can isolate a difference in feel between the MPC original beat, and the DAW recording, with those different processes.
Maybe join together a repeating loop of the same beat, have 4 loops of it with one method, then 4 loops of the next method, then 4 loops of the next method, and so on. Then do a blind listening test with them looping/repeating one after the other, to see if you really can hear any difference in the feel of the beat between different sync/recording methods.
If someone wanted to get all scientific with it, it should be possible to try these different methods of recording separate passes/takes, while synced (or not), from the MPC to the DAW, and then zoom in to analyse the timing of the recordings at the sample level in the DAW, and map out where the notes actually hit after being recorded into the DAW, to compare to exactly where those notes should be based on the original MPC sequence/timing to where they end up inside the DAW.
