Ren Bug or System Limitation?

I see that some of you are having sequence copy issues that result in crashes. However, I wonder if this is a bug as some of you have mentioned?

For example: If you have a sequence with 3 CPU heavy plug-ins running in your project and you make 1 copy of thet sequence, Ren is actually duplicating your plug-in count. Therefore you will then be running 6 of those CPU heavy plug-ins in your project. If your system can not handle the load it may result in a crash.

Perhaps the need is to review your system, it may be time for an upgrade.

LMSW wrote:I see that some of you are having sequence copy issues that result in crashes. However, I wonder if this is a bug as some of you have mentioned?

For example: If you have a sequence with 3 CPU heavy plug-ins running in your project and you make 1 copy of thet sequence, Ren is actually duplicating your plug-in count. Therefore you will then be running 6 of those CPU heavy plug-ins in your project. If your system can not handle the load it may result in a crash.

Perhaps the need is to review your system, it may be time for an upgrade.

I too suspected this, especially after realizing how inefficiently it handled plugin instruments in a copy sequence event. So I resampled all of the instrumentation, removed/deleted the plugin instrument instances. The only plugins used at this point were the native akai eq's and a reverb. Maybe 3 or 4 total. Copied a sequence. The software crashed. Last night, I sent two copies of this same session (one with the plugin instances, and one without) to two different friends with Rens, one of them a well known producer.

In all cases, the software crashed on them when they went to copy the sequence. We all have macbook pros with dual to quad core processors and a minimum of 8gb of ram.

Honestly, I'm probably not your everyday user. I literally make beats all day, so I go through finding out the functionality of things pretty fast. I try to stress test all of my machines, so I know what I can push and what I can't. Similar to knowing how far you can drive when your car reaches "E"...

Right now, I save very very often.

IMAKEMADBEATS wrote:

LMSW wrote:I see that some of you are having sequence copy issues that result in crashes. However, I wonder if this is a bug as some of you have mentioned?

For example: If you have a sequence with 3 CPU heavy plug-ins running in your project and you make 1 copy of thet sequence, Ren is actually duplicating your plug-in count. Therefore you will then be running 6 of those CPU heavy plug-ins in your project. If your system can not handle the load it may result in a crash.

Perhaps the need is to review your system, it may be time for an upgrade.

I too suspected this, especially after realizing how inefficiently it handled plugin instruments in a copy sequence event. So I resampled all of the instrumentation, removed/deleted the plugin instrument instances. The only plugins used at this point were the native akai eq's and a reverb. Maybe 3 or 4 total. Copied a sequence. The software crashed. Last night, I sent two copies of this same session (one with the plugin instances, and one without) to two different friends with Rens, one of them a well known producer.

In all cases, the software crashed on them when they went to copy the sequence. We all have macbook pros with dual to quad core processors and a minimum of 8gb of ram.

Honestly, I'm probably not your everyday user. I literally make beats all day, so I go through finding out the functionality of things pretty fast. I try to stress test all of my machines, so I know what I can push and what I can't. Similar to knowing how far you can drive when your car reaches "E"...

Right now, I save very very often.

How are you setting up your audio to resample?

LMSW wrote:

IMAKEMADBEATS wrote:

LMSW wrote:I see that some of you are having sequence copy issues that result in crashes. However, I wonder if this is a bug as some of you have mentioned?

For example: If you have a sequence with 3 CPU heavy plug-ins running in your project and you make 1 copy of thet sequence, Ren is actually duplicating your plug-in count. Therefore you will then be running 6 of those CPU heavy plug-ins in your project. If your system can not handle the load it may result in a crash.

Perhaps the need is to review your system, it may be time for an upgrade.

I too suspected this, especially after realizing how inefficiently it handled plugin instruments in a copy sequence event. So I resampled all of the instrumentation, removed/deleted the plugin instrument instances. The only plugins used at this point were the native akai eq's and a reverb. Maybe 3 or 4 total. Copied a sequence. The software crashed. Last night, I sent two copies of this same session (one with the plugin instances, and one without) to two different friends with Rens, one of them a well known producer.

In all cases, the software crashed on them when they went to copy the sequence. We all have macbook pros with dual to quad core processors and a minimum of 8gb of ram.

Honestly, I'm probably not your everyday user. I literally make beats all day, so I go through finding out the functionality of things pretty fast. I try to stress test all of my machines, so I know what I can push and what I can't. Similar to knowing how far you can drive when your car reaches "E"...

Right now, I save very very often.

How are you setting up your audio to resample?

Sample Rec > Set the input to Resample > hit record.

This records whatever plays as .wav. A Solo'd track, a drum hit with effects on it..whatever works.

I hope Akai addresses this critical design flaw. Plug-in instruments should be considered programs just like drum kits so that copied sequences just point to the same program. No way should copying a sequence create a whole new instance of an instrument and double your CPU and RAM load. This will tax your CPU and RAM quick by just making a couple copies for bridges and break downs. Couple that with no multicore or 64 bit makes the Ren near useless for sequencing plug-in instruments imo. I won't consider buying one until they address this.

I don't believe this to be a design flaw. Remember how MPC utilizes tracks within a sequence, which allows song structure flexability. This is probably the reason why the plug-ins need to be copied instead of just pointing to the same program as you mentioned. Additional instances of the plug-in allows you to be more creative with the same sound on numerous tracks. This is unlike some other devices on the market.

Remember if your system can not handle the load you can always sample the part as mentioned above.

b-righteous wrote:I hope Akai addresses this critical design flaw. Plug-in instruments should be considered programs just like drum kits so that copied sequences just point to the same program. No way should copying a sequence create a whole new instance of an instrument and double your CPU and RAM load. This will tax your CPU and RAM quick by just making a couple copies for bridges and break downs. Couple that with no multicore or 64 bit makes the Ren near useless for sequencing plug-in instruments imo. I won't consider buying one until they address this.

Yeah, I can't believe they missed that!

b-righteous wrote:Plug-in instruments should be considered programs just like drum kits so that copied sequences just point to the same program. No way should copying a sequence create a whole new instance of an instrument and double your CPU and RAM load. This will tax your CPU and RAM quick by just making a couple copies for bridges and break downs.

LMSW wrote:Additional instances of the plug-in allows you to be more creative with the same sound on numerous tracks. This is unlike some other devices on the market.

If this is the way they designed it and they think this is a good thing, I don't agree, BUT...
This should be an option, and not the only way. If they really want to do it this way, give people the option to do it this way, or the option to use the same instance you just copied in the sequence.

Doubling your plugin instances/cpu load on one copy is serious, more serious than I think is being stated. Imagine you use 60% of your processing power/memory in a sequence. Well below what your computer can handle. If you copy your ONE sequence, boom, crash. Really? And I have no choice but to copy instances, even if the copied instance is using the exact same instrument? This may not be a design flaw...but there is flaw in the implementation of it. A Real World flaw. MPC users are used to copying sequences several times.
Of course there are workarounds. I'm from the school of workarounds, so I'll always figure out a way to do what i need to be done. But that doesn't negate that the idea of plugin instance copying being the only option when copying a sequence, may not be the best idea in the real world of producers.

I'm sure you'll find many people who agree, some bedroom producers, others billboard charters.

Remember that the users of Ren are different from past MPC users--they have full computer access to their hardware. Keeping this in mind, AKAI has bridged the gap and some functions that some may be used to (copying multiple sequences) using only their MPCs may not be the best approach as we walk toward the future.

The intergration of MPC Ren, utilizing resampling techniques, and do not forget your DAW (which is what many producers use to arrange and finalize projects) are all fool-proof ways to accomplising your musical tasks.

This is a new day and new way of using your MPC, let's push forward!

Forward or backward? We are asking Akai to push forward and design it so it makes more efficient use of your computer resources. The current design is a needless waste. If you sequence using your DAW and just use the Ren as a sound module then this won't affect you. But imo. that is missing about half of what makes an MPC so great. If you stick to just one shot samples and loops then your good too but still. A big part of the appeal of the Renaissance is sequencing your plug-in instruments right inside the MPC environment. Right now this worklfow is pretty much dead.

b-righteous wrote:Forward or backward? We are asking Akai to push forward and design it so it makes more efficient use of your computer resources. The current design is a needless waste. If you sequence using your DAW and just use the Ren as a sound module then this won't affect you. But imo. that is missing about half of what makes an MPC so great.

I honestly didn't buy the Ren to use it with my Daw. That defeats the whole purpose of having plugin access in the Ren. Especially when my Daw isn't "supported" in 1.0. The word "supported" is in quotes for a reason...

the number one word used in almost any concept of "pushing forward" is "efficiency"....
MPC world, business world, personal success, you name it. Look at new cars, new houses, new computers, new operating systems (this is why Vista was a complete failure)...i can go on forever.
This is not efficient. There is no objective way to look at it and say it is.

By the way. I love the Ren. I make mad more beats than I did before
Again, this doesn't mean there aren't things that can be improved.

Exactly! And I am not trying to hate here either. The Ren has a lot going for it but that's why they need to address issues like these. I imagine a design change like this might take a big development effort but they should do it imo.

We have to be resonable about what we are asking AKAI to do when making feature recommedations, yes?

As far as being able to "copy multipe sequences" that contain numerous samples, numerous instances of CPU heavy plug-ins, and still have access to 128 tracks within the 128 sequences in Ren without utilizing your CPU is a tall order.

The efficiency in MPC Ren is your ability to use a workflow that is tried and true inside of your existing computer system. AKAI supplies the hardware and software, it is up to the user to provide the system in which it operates.

Please, let's be fair.

In that case they need to make it multi-core as a top priority. Everyone is rockin' quad core processors these days...

Anyway, why do your plugins get doubled up when you copy a sequence? Why don't your tracks/pads reference the same instances?

Coz wrote:In that case they need to make it multi-core as a top priority. Everyone is rockin' quad core processors these days...

Anyway, why do your plugins get doubled up when you copy a sequence? Why don't your tracks/pads reference the same instances?

I believe it's because it's not a multitimbral instrument.