"MPC" Ren's limitations compared to Maschine

This thread is specifically about sharing the limitations of the "MPC" Ren in comparison to Maschine, without sales pitches from people who stand to profit from them being sold, like MIDIchlorian who sells samples and tutorials for MPCs, or xparis001/Andy Mac who are employees of Akai, or collector fanatics like Jahrome who has affiliations with Akai. 

Note: None of these are bugs. There's already a long bug report thread in this forum (including the most basic of tasks like copying sequences/undo after sample editing causing crashes). All these issues are currently by design. 

- the Ren still requires you to use the mouse for a lot of things. You can't even nudge notes from the Ren controller (source: Jahrome) and you can't open/close instrument plugin windows from the Ren controller (source: Pete blues, Akai)

- you have to stop the Ren's sequencer to do things like loading samples/files (source: Jahrome)

- no 64bit support (source: Jahrome)

- it doesn't receive MIDI clock or MTC in standalone mode(source: Jahrome)

- no RTAS support (for anyone using Pro Tools) (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

- Ren doesn't have independent swing (Maschine has it per sound/group/master) and it doesn't work in realtime (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

- you can't manually add/remove slices (source: IMAKEMADBEATS)

- Ren's software will not run without the Ren controller being attached (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

- the Renaissance controller is not usb bus-powered and requires an ac adapter (source: Bremen)

- the Ren doesn't have a fast pad duplicate feature like Maschine and even if you copy samples to different pads in the Ren, editing a pad will affect all pads instead of each pad having its own setting like Maschine (source: LMSW, Blue Haze)

- copying sequences eats up memory when you're using plugins on the Ren's software. Only the sample kits qualify as programs that can be shared across sequences. That means a few instances of a heavy plugin will peak your CPU. (source: Jahrome)

- Ren doesn't even output MIDI as a plugin (source: bobbybland)

- Ren can't even export a program out to separate sounds. You can't get anything other then a single wave file for an entire sequence and .pgm. Ren forces you to manually copy and paste separate tracks for each drum hit that you want separate, which is extremely tedious and a complete workflow killer. (source: bobbybland)

- using Ren's timestretch and pitchshift overwrites the original sample without giving you an option (source: MIDIchlorian)

- editing multiple pads on Maschine is much quicker. When editing multiple samples on different pads on Maschine, as soon as you hit the pad it pulls up the sample on screen ready to be edited. On the Ren, if you want to switch to another sample to edit.. you have to scroll to it, which is a workflow killer. (source: KnockSquared)

- it's hard to do anything but the most basic functions with the Ren controller's built in screen alone. You can do just about anything on Maschine's hardware with my laptop closed. (source: Bremen)

- And even with all that clicking around on the computer screen required on the Ren, it can't even highlight and drag more than one sample at a time. (source: SquareBanger)

- the Ren's sequencer stops every time you simply drag a sample from the browser to a pad (source: Jahrome)

- you can't drag and drop to bounce/export. (source: bobbybland)

- it doesn't even support all of Akai's own legacy MPC file formats (doesn't read .ALL or .APS and ignores things like "Effects, Q Link slider events, Mute groups/mute targets, velocity sensitive parameters (V > Att etc), LFO, sequence track assignments, song files, any JJOSXL specific feature (e.g. NDC related data etc") (source: MPC-Tutor)

and it obviously doesn't have Komplete 8 integration that Maschine has where all presets from Komplete 8 can be browsed and loaded just from the hardware.

Yep ,I have a Maschine sitting right here next to the REN,and honestly, I find the REN much better hardware, but the software is decades behind maschine in the various ways mentioned here. Though a few things like slicing I prefer more within the REN.

AKAI needs to speak up, or spit out some quality updates, fast like!!!

What do you just copy and past these things or somethin, we already heard you guy.

So how long exactly has the NI product been out and how many updates has it had?

This sounds like yet another thread comparing a newborn child to a pensioner.

I just don't see the point of this 'comparison' thread, the pro's and con's of the Renaissance are being discussed at great length in this forum already.

As has been said many times before, if you prefer another machine that's cool.

Go and use it...

I don't agree. I think it is quite useful to see the differences, all grouped in one post, with the sources. We agree, however, that the Ren is new, and will profit further updates, so...

Dam on Gear Slutz and now here too.
I feel like I'm being stalked

Ok if NI fanboys/possible employees want to copy and past their precious list on every forum,I will copy and paste Jahs reply.

Jahrome wrote:This deserves an answer of course....with facts:

1. Sequencer fully operational in all Modes except saving and loading.

2. MPC Ren is a 32 bit app

3. Sends MTC/MIDI clock to external MIDI devices. Syncs to your DAW when used as plugin

4. RTAS support coming soon for those that still use the 32 bit Pro Tools software

5. Ren has the same legendary swing used in every MPC (no need to mess with perfection). It is more powerful than any MPC before it. You can apply swing and time correction in real time wile the sequencer plays. Simply press UNDO to reverse any changes.

6. Chop by Region - You can increase or decrease the number of slices you want up to 128 slices. There is a nondestructive slicing is included,

7. Ren is designed a software/hardware system. Without the controller, you will be mouse clicking

8. The Ren hardware is too powerful to run on the buss power of your computer. It is no cheaper MIDI controller.

9. It has fast Pad Copy. It also has fast nondestructive chopping that 128 duplicates of the same sample is assigned to every pad within a program. These duplicates maintain their sliced start/end points that are freely adjustable.

10. Copy Sequences using plugins creates a duplicate of that Sequence. Since it is a 32 bit app, it can quickly eat available memory. But since it is also a 128 track MIDI sequencer, you can sequence plugins via MIDI and get around this limitation

11. Using time stretch and pitch shifting immediately processes selected sample. Pressing Undo quickly reverts back to original sample

12. All samples stored in memory are sorted in the order they were added to Ram. Using the data wheel you can quickly change the sample and use Qlinks to edit them. No lengthy scrolling. Turn the knob once and the next available slice is in the editor

13. Over 90% of the software can be accessed from the controller. Next OS update closes this gap further. Everything involved with music composition can be done from the controller. The LCD displays all params. *Note that this is the best built drum pad controller the world has ever seen.

14. The Ren can load multiple sounds at once. This includes Maschine's samples. Maschine ships with 1.65 GB of drum sounds. They are stored in Drums folder (12 sub-forums inside). Simply drag-n-drop this massive Drum folder from the MPC Ren's file browser into its Project Information section, and all 1.65 GB of content is loaded to memory, You can thing quickly build drum kits on the fly by saving them as dedicate programs with samples. This is extreme of course….just want you to see how many files can be loaded at once.

15. Already mentioned in #1 that the Ren's sequencer is fully operational performing all aspects of the software outside of saving and loading files

16. MPC Ren can export 128 audio tracks as separate stems to load into your DAW for mixing. It even has a built in MP3 converter

17. MPC Ren can load legacy MPC files better than any product on the market past and present. It can load the sounds and sequences of every MPC ever created perfectly. It can load Programs of ever MPC to include JJ OS. Most params are maintained while certain params are ignored as the Ren doesn't have the same spec. Certain other file formats are not supported but may come in a future OS update. So if you are a legacy MPC user, the Ren is the only product that gives you this level of support. Nothing else comes close.

18. Lastly….you will see 3rd party plugin performance improved in the next OS update. How do I know? Because I have seen/used the beta. And specific details can only be released by Akai.

clint246clint wrote:So how long exactly has the NI product been out and how many updates has it had?

This sounds like yet another thread comparing a newborn child to a pensioner.

When you take to market against an established products you don't get a pass because your new to the game. NI was judged against hardware MPCs at launch based on what the product was when they asked for the customer's money- and with no sympathy . Akai isn't giving early adopters any kind of purchase discount so customers have no obligation to cut them any slack.

Companies get judged on what they're actually selling not what they may be developing.

Ok you want differences how about 1.0 to 1.8 ....

Even with all of Rens current problems, its still better than maschine, because its an MPC with computer integration. BAM, in yo face.

Interesting stuff about the ren...

clint246clint wrote:So how long exactly has the NI product been out and how many updates has it had?

This sounds like yet another thread comparing a newborn child to a pensioner.

I just don't see the point of this 'comparison' thread, the pro's and con's of the Renaissance are being discussed at great length in this forum already.

As has been said many times before, if you prefer another machine that's cool.

Go and use it...

Not only that, but how is any respectable comparison so one sided? What about the shit Maschine can't do that Ren can do?

-Maschine can't stop a long sample from playing out.

-Maschine can't have multiple swing settings on different notes on the same track due to it's real-time nature (gift and a curse). MPC actually moves the notes to the "swung" position. Maschine is always applying swing and you can't physically see the notes' actual position after applying swing, so if you try nudging a note on a sample that has swing applied, it can, at times, be hard to get it sitting where you want because the Real-Time swing is still at work.

-Machine can't have more than 16 completely independent samples in a group. You can map up to 128 samples per pad, sure, but these sounds cannot have independent effects, polyphony, swing, etc.

-Also has no multicore.

-Can't timestretch or pitch shift.

-No DAW transport control.

-Only 3 effects per pad since the sampler or instrument takes up one slot. MPC effects slots are independent of samples or instruments.

-No tilt screen.

-Tap Tempo is a shift function, so it's impossible to tap out a tempo while playing the pads simultaneously.

-Has no mixer.

-After chopping a sample into more than 32 pieces (non-destructively in keyboard mode), can't quickly jump between the different banks of samples because you can only scroll the banks in order of octave. On MPC, you can jump from A to D to B to where ever you want in one button push. The MPC is also easier to know exactly what bank you're on. With Maschine, you have to know music notes and the order they go in.

-Maschine's quantize sucks compared to the MPC.

-Can't loop certain bars of a sequence. Can only loop the entire sequence.

And these are all confirmed by me. And I can go on. But who cares? It's software. Shit can be added, as NI is FINALLY fixing some of the shit I listed after THREE YEARS of user complaints.

Two different pieces of gear aren't going to do all the same things, and they shouldn't. Both are great drum machines. Use what the **** you want and STFU!

^^^^^ elegantly stated my man.

ceasi wrote: BAM, in yo face.

LMFAO!!!!!!

emptysea wrote:.....without sales pitches from people who stand to profit from them being sold....

Well that might have been a great prerequisite for a thread if it wasn't started by this forum's second biggest salesman....