MPC Ren. sync with Pro tools (MTC?, MMC?, SMPTE?, MIDI Beat

Hi All,

I am 2 weeks or so away from my Renaissance. I do have a couple questions about Syncing with Pro tools.

I intend to use MPC renaissance (MASTER) as a standalone sequencer driving my Pro tools 10 (SLAVE) itself and plugins hosted in Pro tools 10 on a separate computer. I know how to set this up with MIDI in/outs and pro tools MTC and MMC settings and such

My question is:
1) What is the MIDI sync format of the MPC Renaissance: MTC? MIDI beat clock ? or SMPTE? and is MMC embedded with all the sync formats?

2) IF MMC is available, does the bar movement on the Renaissance equate to the same bar movement on pro tools when both tempos are set the same? I dont mean just while playing so for example:
MPC is MASTER, Pro tools 10 is SLAVE, both tempos are matched. I press play on the MPC, pro tools also plays and bar location on both are in sync. Now if I go back one bar on the MPC, will that equate to one bar on pro tools also? or will pro tools do something stupid like go back to the beginning?

3) Is the answer to question (2) the same when Pro tools is running as MASTER and the renaissance as SLAVE? (I ask this because this setup is better for me in the editing and arranging stage of my production workflow as Ill be doing more things in protools at this stage)

The reason this is important to me is because there are moments I work with guitar players, and I havent tracked my drums yet. But the guitar player wants the song playing for bars on end. This leaves me with a long audio track in pro tools where I'll need to work on different portions of the audio when editing and arranging, hence starting and stopping in the middle of the arrangement while the MPC is simultaneously starting and stopping the right locations also. So I am hoping there will be no sync issues in this work process as I prefer to track out everything at the very end of writing and arranging.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=159232

MPC Ren should be slaved to PT using Beat Clock and Song Position pointers.

I am happy to work with the developers to make this work in 1.2 !!!!!!

On page 90 of the manual, it looks like the Ren. can send (and not receive) MIDI beat clock or MIDI Time Code (MTC) to DAW

However, it looks like it can both send and receive MIDI Machine Control (MMC)

Which is good because you want the timing from your sequencer (Ren.) anyway

Receiving/Sending MMC will allow Pro tools and Ren transport to talk to each other but Ren. will be the exclusive time code generator. I'll have to turn off MTC on Pro tools.

Can anyone confirm if they can select/check both "Receive" and "Send" MMC simultaneously in Sync Menu?
The only part that stumps me is I do not see an option to select which port the Ren. should receive MMC from

My guess is to connect MIDI out from Pro tools interface back into one of the Renaissance MIDI in. Then send MMC from Pro tools via this port .... right?

Most folks on here seem to be using MPC Soft in standalone, have to wait for commercial studio facilities to pick up the Ren and more will be talked about sync.

Do not use the physical midi ports to sync. If you are on MAC you can set up the IAC Bus, its a virtual Midi Port and then send a master MTC from MPC ren to Pro Tools.

Would be interesting to hear how good that sync works. I mean if it does great, this may be a workable solution.

the reason why I personally do not like MTC is that it takes a bar or two to lock in. Midi Beat Clock however locks in straight away.

e9000k wrote:Most folks on here seem to be using MPC Soft in standalone, have to wait for commercial studio facilities to pick up the Ren and more will be talked about sync.

Do not use the physical midi ports to sync. If you are on MAC you can set up the IAC Bus, its a virtual Midi Port and then send a master MTC from MPC ren to Pro Tools.

Would be interesting to hear how good that sync works. I mean if it does great, this may be a workable solution.

the reason why I personally do not like MTC is that it takes a bar or two to lock in. Midi Beat Clock however locks in straight away.

Thanks E9000k. Why is it better to sync over the IAC Bus you mentioned as supposed to physical MIDI port?

2toxic wrote:

e9000k wrote:Most folks on here seem to be using MPC Soft in standalone, have to wait for commercial studio facilities to pick up the Ren and more will be talked about sync.

Do not use the physical midi ports to sync. If you are on MAC you can set up the IAC Bus, its a virtual Midi Port and then send a master MTC from MPC ren to Pro Tools.

Would be interesting to hear how good that sync works. I mean if it does great, this may be a workable solution.

the reason why I personally do not like MTC is that it takes a bar or two to lock in. Midi Beat Clock however locks in straight away.

Thanks E9000k. Why is it better to sync over the IAC Bus you mentioned as supposed to physical MIDI port?

Using IAC Its all routed in the box, the latency/jitter should be very small. If you route it out of an interface and then back you get all sorts of conversion which introduces unnecessary delay and jitter.

I do like the idea of MPC Software coupled with the Outputs (10 Analog 3000 type outs would have been nicer tho)

I generally would be all for clocking it as master (this would allow me to navigate the timeline from the MPC hardware) but i hate the fact that it takes 2 bars to lock up. Unless AKAI can do some magic.. Any willing testers with REN and Pro Tools?

e9000k wrote:

2toxic wrote:

e9000k wrote:Most folks on here seem to be using MPC Soft in standalone, have to wait for commercial studio facilities to pick up the Ren and more will be talked about sync.

Do not use the physical midi ports to sync. If you are on MAC you can set up the IAC Bus, its a virtual Midi Port and then send a master MTC from MPC ren to Pro Tools.

Would be interesting to hear how good that sync works. I mean if it does great, this may be a workable solution.

the reason why I personally do not like MTC is that it takes a bar or two to lock in. Midi Beat Clock however locks in straight away.

Thanks E9000k. Why is it better to sync over the IAC Bus you mentioned as supposed to physical MIDI port?

Using IAC Its all routed in the box, the latency/jitter should be very small. If you route it out of an interface and then back you get all sorts of conversion which introduces unnecessary delay and jitter.

I do like the idea of MPC Software coupled with the Outputs (10 Analog 3000 type outs would have been nicer tho)

I generally would be all for clocking it as master (this would allow me to navigate the timeline from the MPC hardware) but i hate the fact that it takes 2 bars to lock up. Unless AKAI can do some magic.. Any willing testers with REN and Pro Tools?

Thanks man.

However, your suggestion will not be possible with my set-up though I have pro tools 10 on a powerful PC desktop running windows 7. My audio interface is a RME Fireface 800. The Renaissance will be used as a standalone with a Macbook. The Ren's Audio and MIDI I/Os will be connected to the RME. So my only choice is to sync via MIDI ports. I'll see which will gives a better sync performance with Pro tools; MTC or Beat Clock.

To conclude, the set-up will be as follows:

1) The Ren will MIDI out MTC(or beat clock) and MME to Pro tools/RME,
2) The Ren will MIDI in MME only from Pro tools/RME

whos got the latest on version 1.1

The Ren can only slave/receive MMC as of 1.1.

The Ren is slaved/Sync'd to a DAW when used as a plugin within that DAW. Otherwise the option is to use a DAW than can slave to the Ren....Pro Tools not being one of them.

Being that the Ren is a plugin...why not install the RTAS Ren plugin on your Pro Tools system. Compose using the Ren on the system dedicated specifically for the Ren then save the project. Load this project into the Ren RTAS plugin within Pro Tools. Sync issues begone.

....of course you must have the Ren connected to your Pro Tools Rig or you can't use the plugin...

I have 1.1 and it works well as an RTAS plugin within Pro tools 10
So MPC Ren Plugin, Instrument tracks, MIDI out tracks, and Audio tracks all in sync

However, the Renaissance will not send MIDI out in plugin mode so it is not possible to do all the sequencing within the Ren in plugin mode. This would be sick and Im sure it will be taken care of in an update.

Until then, Drums and samples will be have to be sequenced in the MPC plugin and the synths and soft synths will be via DAW MIDI.

Hey Jah, what is the "receive" check box in the MMC (Preferences>Sync) section for if it is not to receive MMC?

and Pro tools CAN receive MTC so I am still flirting with sequencing the DAW plugin via MPC externally (this way keeps all sequencing inside MPC). Just not sure how I will handle live audio inputs with this method.

The IAC bus routing may work for some, but I dont plan on running my MPC-R on the same computer I am running my pro tools rig on. Which is how it should be, I have a dedicated Mac mini running the Ren. And I need the MPC-R to receive Midi Clock Sync. Shouldnt even be an issue. This is basic 101

MrBlack wrote:The IAC bus routing may work for some, but I dont plan on running my MPC-R on the same computer I am running my pro tools rig on. Which is how it should be, I have a dedicated Mac mini running the Ren. And I need the MPC-R to receive Midi Clock Sync. Shouldnt even be an issue. This is basic 101

Thats what I said, until I realized how seamless it works as an RTAS plugin ... for now ... haven't done anything very complex yet.

I wont mind installing the REN RTAS plugin on my ProTools Rig Computer, but Im skeptical that I can have the MPC REN Hardware Connected to two different MACs at the same damn time, (Sorry I had to) One Mac running Protools and one running the MPC REN Sounds.

I sure hope I will not have to INSTALL the SOUND BANKS on the Pro Tools Rig Computer to make this work?

2toxic wrote:On page 90 of the manual, it looks like the Ren. can send (and not receive) MIDI beat clock or MIDI Time Code (MTC) to DAW

However, it looks like it can both send and receive MIDI Machine Control (MMC)

Which is good because you want the timing from your sequencer (Ren.) anyway

Receiving/Sending MMC will allow Pro tools and Ren transport to talk to each other but Ren. will be the exclusive time code generator. I'll have to turn off MTC on Pro tools.

Can anyone confirm if they can select/check both "Receive" and "Send" MMC simultaneously in Sync Menu?
The only part that stumps me is I do not see an option to select which port the Ren. should receive MMC from

My guess is to connect MIDI out from Pro tools interface back into one of the Renaissance MIDI in. Then send MMC from Pro tools via this port .... right?

I told the Akai Rep I met at AES, that this was a super important feature. HE looked a bit bewildered as to when and if this was going to come. I don't expect to see this in the next update, which is sad to me.

Super bump.

After using the MPC Ren as RTAS plugin in pro tools 10 for about 4 years, I truly now want to accomplish what I set out to do from the onset when I first bough this machine. Use as stand alone for quite a few reasons.

1 - Remove processing from my main desktop, there by operating on the lowest buffers in the busiest of sessions
2 - Not having to fire up the whole studio just to program some drums.
3 - Accessing full features as supposed to limited plugin mode

Anyway;
- is anyone using the Ren as master when syncing to pro tools 10?
- smooth syncing when it comes time to track out?
- will pro tools accept tempo changes from the mpc ?