Hardware Vintage mode mystery uncovered

peace

Some beer and patience, at least they made it easy to serch in the code

m56p87 wrote:

JAH wrote:What does that anti-aliasing...two pole low pass filter without resonance do exactly

Look up "Nyquist frequency". it's basically just a filter put where aliaising will occur on the incoming audio. It made more sense to me when I read about how it works on images...

Cool.

I am interested in hearing the OPs hands-on compairson. I find very little value in reading some specs.

@JAH

The filter is there in both designs (3000 and ren) to filter out the out of band noise that came with the d to a conversion. Every dac uses such a filter behind it. However a modern converter can get away with a filter which has a much higher cut off frequency than that of the 3000 (its typically set at 50KHz instead of 26KHz). Thats because the 3000 uses less oversampling than a modern converter does.

And I never did any comparison. But thats not what this topic is about. This is about the sketchy advertising of a "product feature".

Funk E-technician wrote:@JAH

The filter is there in both designs (3000 and ren) to filter out the out of band noise that came with the d to a conversion. Every dac uses such a filter behind it. However a modern converter can get away with a filter which has a much higher cut off frequency than that of the 3000 (its typically set at 50KHz instead of 26KHz). Thats because the 3000 uses less oversampling than a modern converter does.

And I never did any comparison. But thats not what this topic is about. This is about the sketchy advertising of a "product feature".

The advertising highlights the Vintage Mode emulates legacy MPCs. It does have 3 different vintage modes.

At Namm, Akai highlighted that the Ren has some of the same circuitry as the 3000. Does it or doesn't it? And what is the bottom line? Does the Vintage Mode add something of value to the sound of your music? I think all this valid in this discussion.

People on this board (other than you) wanted to know what this circuitry contains. So I told them. Got a problem?

Thanks for the input. I want to know what the circuitry contains and what impact it has on the sound? I also would like to know you opinion on the sound of the Ren compared to the samplers it is emulating.

You clearly implied the circuitry doesn't add any coloration to the sound. Can you prove this?

Funk E-technician wrote:This is about the sketchy advertising of a "product feature".

It was only a matter of time before someone debunked the whole 'hardware placebo mode'. Cheers.

So in the end Vintage mode equates to a button call three plugins and some hardware hype.

Coz wrote:It was only a matter of time before someone debunked the whole 'hardware placebo mode'. Cheers.

moyphee wrote:So in the end Vintage mode equates to a button call three plugins and some hardware hype.

That was to be expected.

Plus there are better bitcrusher/lo-fi plug-ins out there that eat the Ren "emulations" for breakfast!

Nukai is a bunch of liars. Sad but true...

moyphee wrote:So in the end Vintage mode equates to a button call three plugins and some hardware hype.

Coz wrote:

Funk E-technician wrote:This is about the sketchy advertising of a "product feature".

It was only a matter of time before someone debunked the whole 'hardware placebo mode'. Cheers.

Funk E-technician wrote:And I never did any comparison. But thats not what this topic is about. This is about the sketchy advertising of a "product feature".

i still think a comparison by anyone who has access and experience with both models would be interesting...

Funk E-technician wrote:@JAH

The filter is there in both designs (3000 and ren) to filter out the out of band noise that came with the d to a conversion.

...if the filter is there on both designs then shouldn't that mean as insignificant as it might be that indeed the ren has a similar if not identical design to the 3000?

also what else were you expecting to find at that particular output stage other then that?

finally i'm no circuit expert but wouldn't a lowpass filter actually color sound? it certainly does on my SP-1200 outputs..

don't get me wrong i'm as skeptical as anyone on akai's claim on this subject but i'm not entirely convinced this "discovery" proves anything at this point...

JAH wrote:You clearly implied the circuitry doesn't add any coloration to the sound. Can you prove this?

and you clearly implied the opposite... making claims that you were going to post comparisons of every MPC you owned along with examples of vintage mode for everyone to hear... and that no one would be able to tell the difference, etc. you yourself implied that the emulation was spot-on... can YOU prove it? ...you said you would ages ago... both here and on other forums.

how about you back up your own claims on vintage mode before trying to discredit those that have actually contributed to the topic with something other than outdated internet marketing tactics.

It was always an emulation. Dan said the circuitry and components of the 3000/60 was designed into the software, it can only be heard through the Ren controller's output though, giving the notion that its the Ren's circuitry when its only an exclusive software feature. I'm sure the Studio will have vintage mode.