The Tascam MidiStudio 688 dedicated thread

This thread started here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=161433&start=15

Let's continue the discussion...

dabmeister wrote:

RootsRenegade wrote:Yes, absolutely, i want to mix AND record to tape on the 688 for the sake of capturing "that tape sound", then track out to Cubase for FXs and final mastering. That is why i use the tape outs and not the group outs.

dabmeister wrote:but you still would have better control over the tracks (volume/channel control) if going the group out scenario rather than the tape outs.

Why is that ? Please explain (How will i be capturing "that tape sound" then if I want to do the final digital mastering in Cubase ?) The point is that i want to run the analog tape sound and digitalise it in Cubase, not take the Cubase digital signal and run it through the tape, cause i would have to bring it back to digital after. Plus i will have more control over the tape sound in Cubase then i would have with the opposite.

Using the tape outs on the 688 bypasses the mixer altogether. There's no control over track levels or eq if you want to spruce up the sound before it goes to daw. It makes that much of a difference if you go group outs vs. tape outs. Being able to add some spice to those tracks before it hits the daw will mean all the difference in the world...trust me. Now if using the tape outs is an easier alternative because you don't understand the routing matrix...I can understand why. And if this is the case, I can chime in with some help on figuring it out.

On the other hand...if you're pleased with the sound and level of the tape tracks regardless of needing to eq or adjust levels, then go ahead with using the tape outs.

I'll explain what i do and also what i want to do.

First, i compose music on my MPC2500, then i track out via the multiple outs to my 688. There, i can EQ and mix before i record to tape (for the sake of capturing "that lo-fi tape sound") on 8 tracks. Once it is EQed, mixed and recorded to tape, i have no more control over the mixer so i can't "add some spice to those tracks" but they already have been EQed, mixed and they have "that tape sound" that i am looking for.

Then, i want to send those 8 tracks to my interface so i can track them in Cubase where i can EQ a little more if needed, add FX and do the digital mastering.

My understanding from reading/studying the manual is that if i want to track out the recorded tape cassette to my interface, i have to use the tape outs cause the group outs only track out the 688 ins through the mixer, nothing to do with the tape cassette, so i don't get "that tape sound" that i am looking for. Now maybe this is where i get it wrong. Is it ?

RootsRenegade wrote:My understanding from reading/studying the manual is that if i want to track out the recorded tape cassette to my interface, i have to use the tape outs cause the group outs only track out the 688 ins through the mixer, nothing to do with the tape cassette, so i don't get "that tape sound" that i am looking for. Now maybe this is where i get it wrong. Is it ?

The group outs work with both the mixer and the cassette. As a matter of fact, I've got use to using these ports because they provided a means of allowing whatever is connected to the mixer to get routed from either analog tape or just bypass this and go straight to daw. If I remember correctly, you have to have the monitor button engaged as well.

The routing matrix just above the transports give you all the power you need to send whatever to where ever.

Now in your case, I'd probably do the same by going tape out then going to daw. The reason being, it wouldn't be neccessary to eq the tracks twice (like you said) if you've got everthing set right and sounding good in the first place. These days I don't use the cassette at all. It's more of the mixer only since this is what I prefer using coupled with the daw using group outs 1/2 only.

I'm only using the 688 for space issues atm. I normally work on a full sized 24x8x2 analog mixer with 24 tape outputs & 24 tape returns.

This is what I really want to go with at some point.



Like to find one with minimal head hrs and in stellar condition.

Wow, that is a bad ass machine ! I hope you find one in stellar condition.

dabmeister, thanks for offering me your help mith my 688.

As a matter of fact, i really need help with it since it is my first real analog mixer. I practice, make lab tests, i read and study the manual everyday but there are still some things i don't understand, mostly because english is not my first language and my manual is in english. I stuggle with some technical words and techniques. I only found a portion of the manual in french, wich is my native language. anyway...

I have many questions, they may seem basic for you but i haven't found the answers yet. I will throw them as they come in my mind, in no particular order.
Maybe others can help too

I am not sure i understand the pan function on the mixer. I am on scene 10 (feeding 8 tracks with separate mic inputs, except i take off the the assign EFF and the line inputs because i don't need them). Now if i have, for example, a kick on Grp/Trk 3 and a snare on Grp/Trk 4 coming in from my MPC2500 and i want to pan both of them in a particular way to make a stereo mix i like. I am not sure i get it. I understand that Grp/Trk 3 is left and Grp/Trk 4 is right, so when i turn left or right the pan button (from the MAIN mixer section) of Grp/Trk 3, either it doesn't change anything or i don't hear a thing, the opposite for Grp/Trk 4. The only way i can hear a panning is when i pan on the cue monitor but this only controls what goes out to headphones or monitor speakers. It doen't record on tape the changes. I don't get it, how can i pan each individual Grp/Trk the way i want so i can record my stereo mix ?

Another question: If i have, for example, that same kick in Grp/Trk 3 coming in from the MPC, and the level of it is set to 0 in the meter section (#57 on page 46 of the manual), how come it doesn't show as loud in the monitor mix meter section (#58 on same page) ? It just barely shows up.

Also, i read on the internet that it is best to keep unbalanced cables under 12 feet long in order to prevent picking up dreaded hum and ruin the audio signal (main source: TweakHeadz lab), but other sites recommend to keep them even shorter. I wonder, what are your personnal experiences regarding unbalanced cables lenght going out of the tape/group outs of your 688.

Thanks a lot

Well, If you're using the presets of the routing matrix, you won't get the results you probably are looking for. It's pretty complex at first, but gets easier to understand once you figure out what gets activated & deactivated.

RootsRenegade wrote:I am not sure i understand the pan function on the mixer. I am on scene 10 (feeding 8 tracks with separate mic inputs, except i take off the the assign EFF and the line inputs because i don't need them). Now if i have, for example, a kick on Grp/Trk 3 and a snare on Grp/Trk 4 coming in from my MPC2500 and i want to pan both of them in a particular way to make a stereo mix i like. I am not sure i get it. I understand that Grp/Trk 3 is left and Grp/Trk 4 is right, so when i turn left or right the pan button (from the MAIN mixer section) of Grp/Trk 3, either it doesn't change anything or i don't hear a thing, the opposite for Grp/Trk 4. The only way i can hear a panning is when i pan on the cue monitor but this only controls what goes out to headphones or monitor speakers. It doen't record on tape the changes. I don't get it, how can i pan each individual Grp/Trk the way i want so i can record my stereo mix ?

This might not sound important, but I've got better results using the line inputs rather than the supposedly balanced xlr inputs. There's no audible difference in the levels between the two. I thought the xlr inputs were "hotter" than the line inputs at first, but that's not the case with the 688, they're just balanced to help with noise issues. Everything level-wise about this recorder is -10dB consumer line level. I just didn't see the need to utilize xlr cables for everything that was to be connected. So with that being said, you're gonna get hum and noise whether you use xlr balance inputs or 1/4 in. inputs.

The key to eliminating this noise whether you use 3 ft. cables or 20 ft. cables is how and where you route them. Keeping certain cables away from power sources (wall warts) is one way of staying free of noise. There's other ways in addition to this but I'll elaborate on it a little later.

I'll have to power up my 688 and give you some step by step pointers on the routing matrix after I run an errand this morning.

Just a little known fact:

Bootsy Collins wrote:I recorded the whole album of "The Zillatron" and "Bucketheadland" on my then new 688 MidiStudio [1989] with MIDI and sync code.

The two display pages of the patch/routing matrix that you need to deal with are the input and assign pages.

It can be a bit tricky with understanding it at first but you'll catch on with how Tascam set this up.

Example: if input one is on channel one and input two is on channel two, you'd want the matrix to show one square for each input selected (this would be two total) instead of what would look like four selected squares if you use the presets I presume.

Then on the assign page you select the channels you want to record to correspond to the group/tracks you want to record to.

If you're able to post a pic of your matrix settings, I can give you more detailed instructions on how and what to set up.

dude .. yes. i have one of these. there's some minor parts issue with it right now (something in the tape mechanism) so i've never really utilized it but i socked it away a couple years ago for super cheap on craigslist. i'm watching this thread closely ..

dabmeister wrote:Now in your case, I'd probably do the same by going tape out then going to daw.

That's also what i thought. I want the mixing job to be done on the 688 and the mastering in Cubase. So tape outs would be my best option since i want to mix, then record to cassette tapes, no need to mix again after that. Then, i want to take all 8 tracks that have been recorded on tape and track them out to Cubase for mastering.

Ok, this being said...

First, i want to say that when i bought the machine used, i restored the factory settings so i would not get lost in the settings of the owner before me.

dabmeister wrote:The two display pages of the patch/routing matrix that you need to deal with are the input and assign pages.

It can be a bit tricky with understanding it at first but you'll catch on with how Tascam set this up.

Example: if input one is on channel one and input two is on channel two, you'd want the matrix to show one square for each input selected (this would be two total) instead of what would look like four selected squares if you use the presets I presume.

Then on the assign page you select the channels you want to record to correspond to the group/tracks you want to record to.

If you're able to post a pic of your matrix settings, I can give you more detailed instructions on how and what to set up.

I am pretty confident i get this part right, that is why i told you this:

RootsRenegade wrote:I am on scene 10 (feeding 8 tracks with separate mic inputs, except i take off the the assign EFF and the line inputs because i don't need them).

To say the truth, i am not on scene 10. I work on a scene i created, numbered 99 and saved in memory so i always work on that #99 scene. It is the same as scene 10 in the manual except i took out the assign EFF and line inputs (like i said) because i work with mic inputs (when i bought the machine, i also bought 8 TRS to XLR cables because in the manual, the sampler is plugged in the XLR inputs). Anyway, i took pictures to show you the scene i work with.

First, this is my 688


This is the cassettes type i work with


Ok, back to business... These are the pictures i was talking about:

Scene #99 Mic INPUTS


Scene #99 Assign EFF (None because no EFFects returns plugged)


Scene #99 Assign MAIN



Another points of interest: in the monitor section, the only button that is pressed down is the cue monitor, so i can hear what goes out to my speakers/headphones. I believe there is no need for the other switches to pe pressed at the moment. Also, in the cue monitor section, all levels are positioned at 12 o'clock, same for the pan buttons. You can look at my 688's first picture to see the positions of it's differents buttons.

Now, with all these informations, back to my questions:

RootsRenegade wrote:dabmeister, thanks for offering me your help mith my 688.

I am not sure i understand the pan function on the mixer. I am on scene #99. Now if i have, for example, a kick on Grp/Trk 3 and a snare on Grp/Trk 4 coming in from my MPC2500 and i want to pan both of them in a particular way to make a stereo mix i like. I am not sure i get it. I understand that Grp/Trk 3 is left and Grp/Trk 4 is right, so when i turn left or right the pan button (from the MAIN mixer section) of Grp/Trk 3, either it doesn't change anything or i don't hear a thing, the opposite for Grp/Trk 4. The only way i can hear a panning is when i pan on the cue monitor but this only controls what goes out to headphones or monitor speakers. It doen't record on tape the changes. I don't get it, how can i pan each individual Grp/Trk the way i want so i can record my stereo mix ?

Another question: If i have, for example, that same kick in Grp/Trk 3 coming in from the MPC, and the level of it is set to 0 in the meter section (#57 on page 46 of the manual), how come it doesn't show as loud in the monitor mix meter section (#58 on same page) ? It just barely shows up.

Also, i read on the internet that it is best to keep unbalanced cables under 12 feet long in order to prevent picking up dreaded hum and ruin the audio signal (main source: TweakHeadz lab), but other sites recommend to keep them even shorter. I wonder, what are your personnal experiences regarding unbalanced cables lenght going out of the tape/group outs of your 688.

Thanks a lot

starcrusher wrote:dude .. yes. i have one of these. there's some minor parts issue with it right now (something in the tape mechanism) so i've never really utilized it but i socked it away a couple years ago for super cheap on craigslist. i'm watching this thread closely ..

Great, welcome aboard !

It may not make sense at first but try using your "dual" section along with the same matrix and mixer settings as you have for the "main".

Of course you'll have to push in the "dual" button (in your monitor section) and deal with the dual main volume control as well. All volume controls under "dual" and pan work the same as the main.

My dual volume settings were always set midway or around the 12 o'clock mark. So if your dual section matches the main section, you should be able to record whatever mixer settings you have set up to record your mpc.

Come to think of it...the dual section only works if you're using the unbalanced 1/4 in. inputs.

BTW...are you using your "trim" volume controls for each channel you have connected (red knobs at the top of the mixer section)? I only ask because I see all your trim volume knobs turned completely to the left. These need to be turned up in order to allow the signal from the mpc to get recorded.

dabmeister wrote:It may not make sense at first but try using your "dual" section along with the same matrix and mixer settings as you have for the "main".

Of course you'll have to push in the "dual" button (in your monitor section) and deal with the dual main volume control as well. All volume controls under "dual" and pan work the same as the main.

I have tried it, i will make more tests in 5 minutes. Of course, for the "dual" button.

My dual volume settings were always set midway or around the 12 o'clock mark. So if your dual section matches the main section, you should be able to record whatever mixer settings you have set up to record your mpc.

Thanks, i will try that. Do you believe it is the way to mix/reccord my panning ? Could be, i will try it.

Come to think of it...the dual section only works if you're using the unbalanced 1/4 in. inputs.

No, it works with any input you set in the input section. I already have tried to choose Mic inputs in MAIN + Mic inputs in DUAL, all together and it works just fine.

BTW...are you using your "trim" volume controls for each channel you have connected (red knobs at the top of the mixer section)? I only ask because I see all your trim volume knobs turned completely to the left. These need to be turned up in order to allow the signal from the mpc to get recorded.

Well, i didn't feel the need to use the trim knobs since the signal coming in from the MPC is already loud enough (i set the master volume to -18/-24 DB on the MPC). I adjust every needed pad's volume in the MPC so it sits naturally between 7 and 8 on each individual Main channel faders on the 688.

You say you use the 688 only as a mixer these days and that you don't use the tape recorder anymore. I understand you mix on the 688 and then send all this to your DAW of choice via group outs. So, how do you do the panning on the mixer regardless of the tape recorder ?

Thanks !

aren't the 'tape outs' pre-mixer - ie. if you intend to track to tape then mix somewhere else?

if you want to 'mix' in the tascam, then you would simply tap the stereo out and feed that to daw for stereo mastering (or use the group outs if you want to mix twice).

RootsRenegade wrote:...i track out via the multiple outs to my 688. There, i can EQ and mix before i record to tape (for the sake of capturing "that lo-fi tape sound") on 8 tracks. Once it is EQed, mixed and recorded to tape, i have no more control over the mixer so i can't "add some spice to those tracks" but they already have been EQed, mixed and they have "that tape sound" that i am looking for.

does it really record the eq to each track? that seems backwards, because then when you played back the tape, you'd have to 'undo' the mixing that you did while recording. i dont know of any recorder that works like this...the idea is usually record the tracks in as dry as possible, then eq on 'mixdown' from the dry tape tracks.
i really doubt it does.

tapedeck wrote:aren't the 'tape outs' pre-mixer - ie. if you intend to track to tape then mix somewhere else?

if you want to 'mix' in the tascam, then you would simply tap the stereo out and feed that to daw for stereo mastering (or use the group outs if you want to mix twice).

I want to mix on the 688 before i record to tape so everything glues together on tape.

I want to track out all 8 individual recorded channel/track (not just the L/R stereo out) so i can edit (add parallel compression, FXs, reverbs) each individual track in Cubase when mastering.

does it really record the eq to each track? that seems backwards, because then when you played back the tape, you'd have to 'undo' the mixing that you did while recording. i dont know of any recorder that works like this...the idea is usually record the tracks in as dry as possible, then eq on 'mixdown' from the dry tape tracks.
i really doubt it does.

Yes, it does, and once it is recorded to tape, the mixer doesn't affect anything on the recorded session (as far as my tests go, i am still waiting for my interface to arrive so i only tested through the main L/R outs). For example, i can cut the bass out on Grp/Trk 3 while the recorded tape is playing back and it doesnt change what goes out through the cue monitor (what goes to the speakers/headphones).

But i have to say i asked myself the same question, and there is still a lot of lab tests for me to do. Maybe dabmeister knows more on the subject.

That machine has a crazy learning curve

RootsRenegade wrote:Yes, it does, and once it is recorded to tape, the mixer doesn't affect anything on the recorded session

so why are there 8 separate tracks if after they are recorded, they are unusable separately?

can someone confirm that the mixer on the 688 works only during tracking, applies the effects to the recorded tracks, and then cannot be used later?

so you are saying that once you have your tracks recorded, you cant even make a new mix adjusting levels of those tracks?

ive never used the machine, but you are describing a setup that ive never heard before and one that to me seems totally bass ackwards.

you can test this easily...plug your mpc into track one and set it on a looping beat. keep the fader up. hit record. while it's playing, bring the fader all the way down.
now rewind the track and record into your daw what is coming from tape out 1. if the volume goes down when you brought the fader down it will confirm that the mixer only has an effect before the tracking.

tapedeck wrote:can someone confirm that the mixer on the 688 works only during tracking, applies the effects to the recorded tracks, and then cannot be used later?

so you are saying that once you have your tracks recorded, you cant even make a new mix adjusting levels of those tracks?

I believe so, when using the tape outs. Group outs may be a different story, but i will be using the tape outs because there is no need to EQ twice.

dabmeister aggrees on that.

dabmeister wrote:Now in your case, I'd probably do the same by going tape out then going to daw. The reason being, it wouldn't be neccessary to eq the tracks twice if you've got everthing set right and sounding good in the first place.

But it would be important to be able to adjust the levels of those tracks...

RootsRenegade wrote:...(as far as my tests go...)

dabmeister wrote:Using the tape outs on the 688 bypasses the mixer altogether. There's no control over track levels or eq if you want to spruce up the sound before it goes to daw. It makes that much of a difference if you go group outs vs. tape outs. Being able to add some spice to those tracks before it hits the daw will mean all the difference in the world...trust me...

I am sure of nothing with this thing...

Using the tape outs to DAW, i believe it can be done only by selecting tape as the input and re-recording the changes i make... but i am not sure if i can, through the tape outs and while the tape is playing back, make changes with the mixer and affect what goes to DAW. I will make some lab tests to check that out, i'll tell you the results.