Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
By Beginner Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:01 pm
I have a few questions for yall sampling veterans.
For an example.. when I take a 2 or 4 bar phrase loop from a old soul record.. what is the correct way to fit the phrase into the sequencer?
The way I do it right now is to take the loop, load it up in my triton, and the triton chop up the sample for me automatically.
But here's the problem... when I load up the now chopped up sample into the triton's sequencer and play back the loop... the loop now sound disgusting, harsh, and very choppy. I've tried to load up the sample without chopping it up, but when I do that it won't even loop right and the sample won't sit in right with the metronome.
What am I doing wrong here?

By zaster Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:16 pm
Nothing wrong just chop it manually.
If you dont want to chop pitch it up or down or timestretch it.
Thats all you can do.

By Beginner Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:55 pm
When you say chop manually at what points do I need to chop up the loop in order to get a smooth playback?
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By dj_evs Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:14 pm
well I see you say Triton, but this is a MPC forum, so I can only tell you how to do it with a MPC.

you'd prob want to chop it at every 4th or 8th click of the metronome. OR where the sample drastically changes. This is kind of hard to explain without having a specific sample to refer to.

But on the MPC you can chop up your sample into different "zones" and then assign them to different pads. Then you can use the 16-levels to adjust the speed of those diff. sounds. so that they will play at the right bpm of your sequence.

This may sound difficult, but I use this method all of the time and stick to it. It has never failed me.

If you're unsure what "zones" and "16-levels" are just look them up on here. You'll also need to know how to assign the newly chopped up sample to pads. And when it asks if you want to create a new program select "NO" if you select yes, you're kind of screwed.

By Beginner Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:18 pm
I got a MPC 2000xl sitting in the corner just collecting dust right now with a broken screen. My cousin who is in iraq right now left me his triton extreme, and told me that when he come back I better be able to tell him some new things that he don't know.
I've got everything down as far as doing original production with the triton, but this sampling shit is driving me crazy. I can't seem to get nothing done as far as soul sampling with the triton. Out of over 20 oldie songs that I've sampled only 3 of them are coming out correct. For the rest of them I can't seem to get it right. When I play the loop back in the triton SEQ the loop comes out terrible no matter how I chop the sample up.
I know it's gotta be someone on here that sample using the triton or at least know how to use the triton properly for sampling.
When I say sampling.. I don't mean sampling drum loops. I mean straight kanye style.
Thanks for the help everyone.

By spectre Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:38 pm
Are you using the default bpm/tempo of the song in the Triton to begin with? You may need to adjust the bpm of the sequence/song and the tune of your sample to get it right.

By spectre Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:39 pm
And when it asks if you want to create a new program select "NO" if you select yes, you're kind of screwed.


Why are you screwed? I always make a new program. It assigns them for you. Is that bad?

By Beginner Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:13 am
Spectre, I use adobe audition to loop any part of the song that I might want. Then I take those loops, and load them up into the triton. Then I take the loops and do the time slice(chop it), but before the time slice actually happens the triton has to know what is the tempo, and how many beats is in the loop. I then put the correct numbers in and the triton does the chopping at the attack points.
The loop info that I get in my adobe audition is the same exact as what the triton give me so I know that I am working with the right tempo. I've also tried to speed up the tempo of the loop in the triton, but does not really help much. Maybe I should put up a sample of the loop before and after the triton so you guys can get a better idea of what I mean.
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By dj_evs Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:32 am
You can connect your MPC to a computer monitor instead of using the screen. Not sure how this is done since I've never tried it, but I've heard it could be done back on the old mpctutor.cjb.net [good days with a rugged message board]
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By cyrus Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:15 pm
experiment.

i mean, this is a general word 'experiment'......but.

first get a good sample.....you need a good one to really be able to work well, and go from there; you might know alot of this stuff, but sometimes even experienced people overlook good samples because of the moment.

what defines a good sample:

1.solo instrument
2.no drums or percussion(unless you are sampling the drums)
3.more than one instrument, but still no drums.
4.stabs
5.clear single hits
6.clearly defined notes
7. Preferablely not too complicated material so chops dont interrupt the flow.
8. uniqueness/tonal quality. Look for sounds with character, or feeling. Like a sad violin, or an agressive organ, etc.


Sometimes believe it or not, even if you know what to look for, sometimes you dont listen to the music right to find them. You need to practice just listening to one sound, but then also practice listening to that sounds relationship with others. After you can train your ear to hear a good sample; you need to listen for good arrangement. These are some good "arrangements"

1.dramatic build up/down
2.rhythm instrument loops
3.stab/multiple stab like da dunt.
4. Progressive loops
5. loop where you can separate each note (like piano)
6. a large loop where you could rearrange, and chop out the middle, etc.
7. unique riffs, bits pieces.
8. Pick out specific phrases, just dont randomly sample something-the idea is that you hear what a specific sound can do (this is not always true, but just for starters you gotta know how to do this)
9. becarefull of melodys with rhytm in the back ground, whereas if you chop the main melody, the rhythm in the background could go wrong, and make chops not fit.

Next how to experiment with these:

1. sample it in tune, DO NOT use your turntable pitch to **** it. No mater what. You can do that later. BUt its more difficult to try to tune if if you need to.


2. Once it is in the sampler: tighten up the ends, but leave room. EXAMPLE: trim out/crop excess, usually at the beginning and end of your sample; this will give you more samplig space.


3. if its loopable loop it. Regardless if you plan to chop it later. Find a good start point. Usually i define my chops by start points. That is-at the beginning of the next note. Usually this is the most clear point to chop, where you wont catch tail end, or sustained notes. Plus then when you assign the chop to a key, you can press the key, and you immediately get the next chop, nothing wierd at the start.

Dont worry about the end point yet. First you need a good start point. Pretend you are a dj, and you are gonna drop your left turntable over the right one....youll do it on the down beat. Usually this starts with a good solid note.

Trim up to the start note. Hit they key very fast while slowly adjusting the start ponit with the jog wheel, when all you hear is the beginning of the note, you are there. You have to press it very fast so all you hear is the very beginning of where your start point is, this will tighten up your sample and its ability to sync with the bpm.

4.assign it to the keys, spread the sample up and down in pitch....so that you can preview it. Try to stick to detuning it in increments of steps and half steps (basically just spread in on the keys, the triton sampler will already do this) if you dont have to, dont use the manual pitch adjust, as you want to try to keep the sample and its chops someone in tune, even if you pitch it up or down.

5. Experiment with the pitch, this is the easiest way to fit to a beat. Experiment with the pitch before you chop it, that way you can see what each note does while pitched differantly, you can see the relationship with each note, etc.

6. break it down by mountains and peaks. Look at the sample....you can see where notes hit, isolate those if you can, or isolate phrases of them. You can usually see where a good place to chop is, by:

    the front end of a note is very flat. sort of like a sideways triangle. This isnt always true, but when it is flat, its good.

    the more ups and downs with space inbetween a sample the better. Look at a drum loop, try to sample instrument loops that look like drum loops. Eventually you can hear this........solid, defined notes that dont compete with other instruments. Strings look like a thick line.....youll have to listen to chop, but with strings its also easier to chop because you can use your decay settings to smooth them out.

    MANUALLY CHOP AND ONLY CHOP something if its a good place to chop. (not always true) but dont just chop for the fact that you know you gotta chop. Look for good places to divide the sample. It does not matter if your chops are equal. If you have one chop with 1 note, and the next with 2 notes (because the 2 overlap and dont sound good chopped) this is fine.



7. isolate: part of finding a good sample, is looking for samples that can be isolated. After messing with samples you will get better than this.

alot of beginners just go "i like that sound in this song" then they just sample that part, not really thinking about whether the sound they like can be isolated, chopped, or whatever. They listen to the main sound, but dont realize that the beat cannot be synced because its the "other sound" that is out of beat. You have to listen to all the sounds, especially the rhthm.

8. syncing samples is easier when there is less going on in the sample. Long sustaining notes are good, and also simple arrangements. Crazy orchestrastion can be fun and very good to sample, but start out with simple.

9. listen for the rhythm. Tap to the rhythm. With one sound this is easy. With multiple sounds its harder. But, for example use tap tempo. Press the sample, then tap the tempo to the rhytm section of the sample. Rhytm usually can be the bass, chords, guitar, repetative motifs under the melody.

10. I usually try to find the tempo of the pharse before i find the tempo of small chops....find the tempo of the original song.

11.
peace

btw. gotta go, ill think of more stuff later

By lee majors Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:43 pm
cool shit, cyrus.
By nyst8 Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:45 am
dj_evs wrote:You can connect your MPC to a computer monitor instead of using the screen. Not sure how this is done since I've never tried it, but I've heard it could be done back on the old mpctutor.cjb.net [good days with a rugged message board]


i've seen it...bu never in person, how would one do this? what do I have to look for in the monitor?

By elmacaco Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:42 am
only the 3000 and 4000 can do this AFAIK, and the 3000 needs an expantion board to do it, but sometimes it came with it.

By dd humblehustle Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:29 pm
only the 3000 and 4000 can do this AFAIK, and the 3000 needs an expantion board to do it, but sometimes it came with it.


that is unfortunate...i have this plasma monitor sitting around and was hoping I could connect it to my 1000...maybe ill hook it up to my boy's genesis that I just found...