How many of you 'sidechain' ?

so when it goes into your mixer, you just get sidechaing in real time right? but thats about it unless you wanted to route the main LR output of your mixer to your audio interface or multitrack recorder.

so i guess my question is, since you can monitor your sidechain stuff, can you also multitrack your beat to your daw, or multitrack recorder with the sidechain enabled? so when your tracking your beat into your daw/recorder, you can get the sidechaing done "pre-mix-stage?" then when everything else is tracked to its separate tracks, and your ready to start mixing your song, you dont have to fuss with sidechaining the bass to the kick and worrying about the slight delay that it will introduce to your kick and bass that way.

DE_ESSING
DUCKING
and KEYING

these are things that can be accomplished with compressors and sidechain inputs.

Learn what these things are!!!!!!!!

Hardware is what the software is emulating. So some software is not totally correct either so do not be fooled. Any one want to know how to properly use a side chain hit me up. BUT first decide what you are trying to do. Is it de-essing, ducking or keying???
So you need to know what these things are before you can proceed properly.

There is no such thing as sidechaining !!! sidechains are part of compressors to do above methods.

get it??

:So stop talking shit and saying sidechaining because it means you have no idea at all of what you are talking about. tough love time kids.

most of you will be talking of ducking or keying. Different compressors are usually the same but not all. see manuals block diagram for proper use.

One of my harware compressors does not use sidechain to key, it uses two channles in mono. Confused yet.

If you know what you are talking about it makes it easier to understand and then use them properly. sigh

OK so what is it your doing here then Ducking is what most people know, and I assume that is what you are trying to do.
All it does is use sidechain to get a signal to tell the compressor when to COMPRESS.

This again depends on how your compressor is set up and what it is doing. A signal into sidechain will trigger compressor to compress, if over the threshold. Usually, but can be set to do other things to.

Please note that most sidechains are in and out connections on balanced lines for de-essing. then split into in out unbalanced phono plugs to go to something like an EQ. THe EQ then determines at what freq the compressor works at. THIS IS NOT MULTIBAND COMPRESSION.

REALTIME lol.

of course it is. BUT if you use a more than say 10 metre cable then yes there is delay, or latency. But i do not think you are running 10 metre cables are you??

As i said before most compressor sidechains have a output, this can be routed anyway to hear it to be monitored. then back in.

so much mis-information here guys. time to do some research for you.

Wal Martian wrote:I had never heard of 'keying' until I saw it on a software compressor. I have always called it 'sidechaining' and I don't think there is anything wrong with this, because everyone knows you're referring to use of the sidechain input to trigger the compressor.

I agree with this, sidechaining refers to the process not the end result. Calm the **** down blip. Industry and consumers have been calling the process of triggering a compressor with a secondary source "sidechaining" for a long time. There are always more specific ways of describing something. Chill out

No cos ducking is different from de-essing and both use sidechain - get it yet?

like i said learn the difference and stop calling it sidechaining as it is a misnomer.

see above.

just cos a someone else does it, does not mean it is right. If everyone jumped of a cliff would you??
m56p87 you say it is a process but you do not know which one it is if you are saying sidechaining imo.

do you even know the difference between de-essing and ducking. and how they work, seem not from what you post,

Blip why are you flying off the handle on this... Your just splitting hairs..

I use the sidechain on my compressors all the time and have done for many years (usually to fit sounds/frequencies round one another and for gating purposes). (btw blip, my Urei/JBL 7110 calls it a 'detector'; I think we all know what we're talking about here when we talk about using the sidechain input).

I don't use it for "super-sucking" though, as is the current trend on the radio of sucking your brains out through your ears as you try to listen; this is way outta control and sounds shockingly bad. I can't believe some songs get away with the extremities they have.. It really does make me sick to hear. It's not big or clever... Maybe it would sound better on a massive sound system, but on the radio it sounds like pink noise going up and down in volume.

I use hardware btw.

no I am not splitting hairs. If you knew what I was talking about you would understand this.

misinformation is misinformation.

This aint me flying off the handle at all.

De-essing is usually differential compression, and uses the program material or signal out and into EQ then back into compressor via sidechain. see block diagram in manual of compressor.

ducking uses other signal to trigger compressor.

De-essing is frequency dependent, unlike ducking, and can pass other frequencies uncompressed, depending on how it is set up.

keying is using two signals together in mono usually and not the same as ducking, and does not use side chain.

keying is common on radio. So announcer talks and music becomes quieter. Don't confuse this with ducking. see its not splitting hairs. it is very different things really.

jimmie wrote:I use the sidechain on my compressors all the time and have done for many years (usually to fit sounds/frequencies round one another and for gating purposes). (btw blip, my Urei/JBL 7110 calls it a 'detector'; I think we all know what we're talking about here when we talk about using the sidechain input).

I don't use it for "super-sucking" though, as is the current trend on the radio of sucking your brains out through your ears as you try to listen; this is way outta control and sounds shockingly bad. I can't believe some songs get away with the extremities they have.. It really does make me sick to hear. It's not big or clever... Maybe it would sound better on a massive sound system, but on the radio it sounds like pink noise going up and down in volume.

I use hardware btw.

I would have to look at block diagram to see what is going on.

gating is something different again. BUT most compressors have a gate section. Gating is not compression at all. Its just added onto most hardware compressors for a reason - to gate. again this is not compression. Also some have filter section at the end to. Gating might sound like compression but it is not at all.

that example of super sucking is I suspect pumping right? I never heard that term. That is just badly used compression. over the top compression not set right so it pumps. not like french house which is usually ducking.

bliprock wrote:no I am not splitting hairs. If you knew what I was talking about you would understand this.

misinformation is misinformation.

This aint me flying off the handle at all.

So you don't use a sidechain for de-essing or ducking?
That's news to me then.

As for keying, yes, well, we all know what the OP meant though don't we.

bliprock wrote:

jimmie wrote:I use the sidechain on my compressors all the time and have done for many years (usually to fit sounds/frequencies round one another and for gating purposes). (btw blip, my Urei/JBL 7110 calls it a 'detector'; I think we all know what we're talking about here when we talk about using the sidechain input).

I don't use it for "super-sucking" though, as is the current trend on the radio of sucking your brains out through your ears as you try to listen; this is way outta control and sounds shockingly bad. I can't believe some songs get away with the extremities they have.. It really does make me sick to hear. It's not big or clever... Maybe it would sound better on a massive sound system, but on the radio it sounds like pink noise going up and down in volume.

I use hardware btw.

I would have to look at block diagram to see what is going on.

gating is something different again. BUT most compressors have a gate section. Gating is not compression at all. Its just added onto most hardware compressors for a reason - to gate. again this is not compression. Also some have filter section at the end to. Gating might sound like compression but it is not at all.

that example of super sucking is I suspect pumping right? I never heard that term. That is just badly used compression. over the top compression not set right so it pumps. not like french house which is usually ducking.

I never said gating was compression!
Yes, that super-awful sucking is by bad usage of pumping.
I know what I'm talking about blip.

bliprock wrote:keying is common on radio. So announcer talks and music becomes quieter. Don't confuse this with ducking. see its not splitting hairs. it is very different things really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducking

A typical use of this effect in a daily radio production routine is for creating a voice-over....Used most often to turn down the music when the DJ speaks...

so i think this is getting a little silly.
and explain what you think 'keying' is and how it is not sidechaining?

and wtf nobody ever mentioned de-essing (which can be done with a form of sidechain compression).

i can appreciate people calling things different names (especially in different countries) but dont just come out here and claim everyone but you is wrong.

sidechain/keying = same thing, using one signal to trigger compressor on another.
ducking = a more steady (vs variable) gain reduction on one signal, based on presence of another signal.
de-essing = a form of sidechain compression using an eq in the trigger path.

your hardware compressor that 'doesnt use sidechain for key, it uses two channels in mono'... is using one of those channels as a sidechain/key on the other.

sorry should have said most 'detector' circuits are the RMS detector part. sidechain input will go into that part of the compressor circuit. look at block diagram and see if i am right.

Have you got a link for the block diagram ?? no i found the circuit instead, yeah and its a nice one to by the looks of it. See it is looking like sidechain goes to auto circuit and that is RMS in this case usually. So the common parlance is detector, but that relates to RMS and over rides the settings like attack and release.. like a auto setting but is Root Mean Square - RMS
It is common for a lot of hardware ones. Also another name for sidechain is detector, only cos it relates to the RMS circuit that is first before threshold ect.

tapedeck wrote:
and explain what you think 'keying' is and how it is not sidechaining?

and wtf nobody ever mentioned de-essing (which can be done with a form of sidechain compression).

i can appreciate people calling things different names (especially in different countries) but dont just come out here and claim everyone but you is wrong.

sidechain/keying = same thing, using one signal to trigger compressor on another.
ducking = a more steady (vs variable) gain reduction on one signal, based on presence of another signal.
de-essing = a form of sidechain compression using an eq in the trigger path.

your hardware compressor that 'doesnt use sidechain for key, it uses two channels in mono'... is using one of those channels as a sidechain/key on the other.

I disagree - see above.

like i said the sidechain is the I/O

keying is not same as ducking.

one uses sidechain the other does not (usually)
they are not the same.


de-esssing uses the sidechain I/O but is usually differential compression, not the same as keying or ducking.

Keying usually sums the two mono signals, so I can actually KEY and DE-ESS at the same time. one uses side chain the other does not