How many of you 'sidechain' ?

lol, you got issues dude
poor jimmie
what is the matter, do you not like it or something? so you tell me to shut up but have no real argument. Is that not childish?
Maybe if you read the posts you would learn something. I do not see you actually saying anything constructive. In fact you are just bitchin
Wanna step up and contribute or just ****? I prefer it if you ddint **** but we all live in hope don't we. I could go one but you get the idea.

So think before you go metal and tell me to shut up. Cos that is not gonnawork to your advantage. Hey its for your benefit to you know. O that is right you know everything but dont't know shit at the same time, that is why it is funny. you and ya fan boi cheer squad.

Can we keep the thread from being locked or do you wanna get it locked by being an idiot?

well one is born every minute I guess.

I mean come on, give me a decent reply why I am so wrong. Oh thats right you can't

bliprock wrote:I mean come on, give me a decent reply why I am so wrong. Oh thats right you can't

i posted a link that defined ducking exactly as what you claim it is not. you just casually ignored this.

you have provided nothing but your own opinion - you haven't even said what compressor you are talking about when you mention these features you are so schooled on.

not to mention every single scenario you describe involves the use of a sidechain, whether it says 'sidechain' on the jack or not. that is why people are calling you out on being pedantic. every thing you mention is sidechaining in some way.

using one signal to influence an effect on another = sidechaining. regardless of effect.

back up your claims with something other than 'see above' - cause frankly you go on so many tangents its hard to know what you are even referring to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_ra ... e-chaining
http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center ... /t--Ducker
http://erikhawkins.berkleemusicblogs.co ... mpression/
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/a ... h_0908.htm

...the kick drum is used as the ‘key input’ or ‘sidchain’ signal to duck the keyboards and synths to give that pumping and pulse feel

this exemplifies this argument - they just used every single one of those terms as equal (key / sidechain / duck). all those links do the same thing regarding terminology.
nobody cares what you call it but its all based on the same effect.

sidechain = key.
ducking = form of compression.
de-essing = specific form of sidechain/keyed compression (of which there are actually many different ways to de-ess).

please lock this ignorant ass thread.

post something prove me wrong - i welcome it - because all it will prove is that these terms are not as rigid as you would suggest.

http://www.mikekonopka.com/page26.html

Have you ever looked sideways in wonderment at the "sidechain input" or "key in" jacks on your compressor / limiters or noise gates? These sidechain inputs will help you achieve De-essing, Ducking, Keyed Gating, and more

the side-chain compression technique which uses an external "key" or "side chain" signal to determine compression on a target signal.

True Stereo side-chain input for external signal keying

To further control the side chain, there is also an insert “send” and “return” that may be paired with an external EQ or other filters for additional manipulation. The “return” may also be used as a “Key” input for ducking one signal under another. (for instance, a voice-over keying the compressor to duck a background music track).

and a sidechain/key insert loop that enables the gate to be opened, or “keyed,” in response to a modified version of the program signal or some other external source.

a sidechain for keying or ducking effects and stereo

just for laughs
http://www.sidechaincompression.com/

Sidechaining takes one sound and uses it to manipulate another sound.

it just keeps going on...people using terms in different ways.

PHONIC PCL3200 and others

so tapedeck look at manual and see about keying and how wrong you are.
NO SIDECHAIN FOR KEYING. it is not the same as ducking
But o the net is always right right page 6
apology accepted in advance

cool - you've got one implementation of a bargain-bin compressor versus an entire breadth of knowledge across a variety of uses / equipment.

i believe your manual describes their implementation in the way they see fit. i believe you understand the concept.

i don't believe that one manufacturer describing one particular implementation on their own gear is enough to claim every other resource and knowledge on the subject is wrong. i also don't believe that you understand that 'keying' in your example is 'sidechaining' internally.
by choosing stereo link, it uses one channel's signal to compress the entire program - effectively sidechaining the other channel to the first.
"At STEREO LINK, CHA controls both channels."

the manual makes none of the claims you do.

and i'll explain this again - using one signal to control the effect on another is the definition of sidechaining. no matter if the signal is labelled as 'side chain', or if you are using the left signal to influence the right.

ok page 7 shows block diagram look at that.
see yet. Not sidechain.

the manual is not great granted, and does not explain in detail but they are different things tapedeck

go into your local radio station and see for yourself about how they key

again sidechaining is slang and a missnomer. if you say is true how could i key and de-ess or key and duck at the same time ??
answer that? see your not open to what i am saying
cos you say they are the same when they are not, if they were the same thing then I could not do both at once could I? If you follow you argument I would be doing the same thing at the same time? ergo it would be the same - which it is not.

o yeah no need to be all elitist about it either - makes you look like a dick don't it

bliprock wrote:go into your local radio station and see for yourself about how they key

i go there everyday. we run a brickwall limiter on our output (like every station is required to do) and the jocks pull the faders down manually. even if they dont, by pushing the vocal mic high (it runs hot), it causes the limiter to react, in effect bringing the music level down.

how could i key and de-ess or key and duck at the same time ??
answer that? see your not open to what i am saying

because when you hit the stereo link - one channel sidechains the other internally. this then keeps your external sidechain input free - i see it as two separate sidechains. you see it as a sidechain and a 'key' (thinking a key is different than a sidechain).
and how am i 'not open' when i'm giving you every chance - even read the exact manual you are referring to? i'm trying to see it your way homey.

according to the block diagram, when in 'stereo' mode, channel B's rms detector is completely disengaged - which means channel A's signal is causing the compression on channel B ... aka sidechaining (using one signal to control another).

if they were the same thing then I could not do both at once could I?

you could if you had two separate sidechains - one internal and one external.

o yeah no need to be all elitist about it either - makes you look like a dick don't it

if this is in regards to the bargain-bin comment - sorry, did not mean to offend. my favorite compressor is a cheapie POS, not hating. my point still stands - you're using your experience with ONE compressor to claim all other talk regarding the subject is wrong.

let me again state that my point is not 'you are wrong' - i believe you are competent and have some insight into what you are saying.
my point is to consider the possibility that others' experience and knowledge is just as valid as yours in some things.

sciguy wrote:

getting back to your original question,

On my mixer (and I would guess others) one of the aux sends can be set to be pre-fader level, i.e. I can turn the fader all the way down and still have stuff going out of the send output.
That means if you're tracking out, you just mute the sidechaining channel in that way and have that aux send going to the sidechain input, and record track by track, it will still be compressing the tracks while not actually including the sidechain channel into the main mixer output, which would go to your interface.

I don't do that myself, because I don't track things out, not my style of workflow. But it can be done.

ah ok, so how i would do this in application would be, say im tracking my kick, snare, hihat and bass, on 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. on channel 4 i would have the fader turned down, then on the back of the mixer on channel 1-3 i would have my mpc going to them, but on channel 4 i would still have my mpc going to it, but then i would go to the aux section of the mixer and have another 1/4 inch cable running from aux output 1(for example) into the sidechain input of the RNC, then after it went through that it would go from the output of the RNC to a line input of my audio interface.
and i guess i would just be doing 2 tracks at a time out of my mpc if i was using that mixer because essentially i would just be using the mixer as a vessel to run the sidechain compression through before i actually started my mix in my DAW. as a way to circumvent the delay of running it out of my audio interface into the mixer then back into a different track on my DAW. correct?

damien907 wrote:

sciguy wrote:

getting back to your original question,

On my mixer (and I would guess others) one of the aux sends can be set to be pre-fader level, i.e. I can turn the fader all the way down and still have stuff going out of the send output.
That means if you're tracking out, you just mute the sidechaining channel in that way and have that aux send going to the sidechain input, and record track by track, it will still be compressing the tracks while not actually including the sidechain channel into the main mixer output, which would go to your interface.

I don't do that myself, because I don't track things out, not my style of workflow. But it can be done.

ah ok, so how i would do this in application would be, say im tracking my kick, snare, hihat and bass, on 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. on channel 4 i would have the fader turned down, then on the back of the mixer on channel 1-3 i would have my mpc going to them, but on channel 4 i would still have my mpc going to it, but then i would go to the aux section of the mixer and have another 1/4 inch cable running from aux output 1(for example) into the sidechain input of the RNC, then after it went through that it would go from the output of the RNC to a line input of my audio interface.
and i guess i would just be doing 2 tracks at a time out of my mpc if i was using that mixer because essentially i would just be using the mixer as a vessel to run the sidechain compression through before i actually started my mix in my DAW. as a way to circumvent the delay of running it out of my audio interface into the mixer then back into a different track on my DAW. correct?

Sure, that would work, but not exactly what I was trying to say.

I have a mackie 1202vlz3 which has mute buttons that not only mute it on the main mix but also reroute it thru another stereo mixed output, the alt 3/4 bus.
The alt3/4 output goes into the mpc's input, and input thru is turned on.

The MPC's stereo out goes to the RNC input, and the RNC output to another mixer channel.

So, if there's any signal that goes into the mixer and is mute/alt3-4'd, whether it's an MPC assignable out or an external device, it gets compressed. Anything inside the MPC that is just internally routed to the stereo out also is compressed.

Anything that goes into the mixer and isn't muted is not compressed. But if it is routed to the aux send as well, it will also control the sidechain input of the RNC.
So, my kick might be set to the MPC assignable output 1, which goes to channel 1 of my mixer, which is unmuted and has the aux send level turned up.

The mixer main stereo output then contains the entire signal, the sidechain channels or uncompressed channels, and the compressed channels. If you want to only output the compressed signals, muting the sidechain, then just turn the sidechain channel's fader to 0. If your mixer's like mine, it will still do the aux send independent of the master channel fader.


ramblerambleramble...

A simple form of side chaining is when a radio dj talks over the music. And thats how the technique was invented, on analog equipment.

bliprock wrote:lol, you got issues dude
poor jimmie
what is the matter, do you not like it or something? so you tell me to shut up but have no real argument. Is that not childish?
Maybe if you read the posts you would learn something. I do not see you actually saying anything constructive. In fact you are just bitchin
Wanna step up and contribute or just ****? I prefer it if you ddint **** but we all live in hope don't we. I could go one but you get the idea.

So think before you go metal and tell me to shut up. Cos that is not gonnawork to your advantage. Hey its for your benefit to you know. O that is right you know everything but dont't know shit at the same time, that is why it is funny. you and ya fan boi cheer squad.

Can we keep the thread from being locked or do you wanna get it locked by being an idiot?

well one is born every minute I guess.

I mean come on, give me a decent reply why I am so wrong. Oh thats right you can't

You just keep on in your ego-bubble.

sciguy wrote:

damien907 wrote:

sciguy wrote:

getting back to your original question,

On my mixer (and I would guess others) one of the aux sends can be set to be pre-fader level, i.e. I can turn the fader all the way down and still have stuff going out of the send output.
That means if you're tracking out, you just mute the sidechaining channel in that way and have that aux send going to the sidechain input, and record track by track, it will still be compressing the tracks while not actually including the sidechain channel into the main mixer output, which would go to your interface.

I don't do that myself, because I don't track things out, not my style of workflow. But it can be done.

ah ok, so how i would do this in application would be, say im tracking my kick, snare, hihat and bass, on 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. on channel 4 i would have the fader turned down, then on the back of the mixer on channel 1-3 i would have my mpc going to them, but on channel 4 i would still have my mpc going to it, but then i would go to the aux section of the mixer and have another 1/4 inch cable running from aux output 1(for example) into the sidechain input of the RNC, then after it went through that it would go from the output of the RNC to a line input of my audio interface.
and i guess i would just be doing 2 tracks at a time out of my mpc if i was using that mixer because essentially i would just be using the mixer as a vessel to run the sidechain compression through before i actually started my mix in my DAW. as a way to circumvent the delay of running it out of my audio interface into the mixer then back into a different track on my DAW. correct?

Sure, that would work, but not exactly what I was trying to say.

I have a mackie 1202vlz3 which has mute buttons that not only mute it on the main mix but also reroute it thru another stereo mixed output, the alt 3/4 bus.
The alt3/4 output goes into the mpc's input, and input thru is turned on.

The MPC's stereo out goes to the RNC input, and the RNC output to another mixer channel.

So, if there's any signal that goes into the mixer and is mute/alt3-4'd, whether it's an MPC assignable out or an external device, it gets compressed. Anything inside the MPC that is just internally routed to the stereo out also is compressed.

Anything that goes into the mixer and isn't muted is not compressed. But if it is routed to the aux send as well, it will also control the sidechain input of the RNC.
So, my kick might be set to the MPC assignable output 1, which goes to channel 1 of my mixer, which is unmuted and has the aux send level turned up.

The mixer main stereo output then contains the entire signal, the sidechain channels or uncompressed channels, and the compressed channels. If you want to only output the compressed signals, muting the sidechain, then just turn the sidechain channel's fader to 0. If your mixer's like mine, it will still do the aux send independent of the master channel fader.


ramblerambleramble...

ah ok, i see what your doing now, i actually dont have a mixer, but in the future if i get an rnc or another pbc-6a i might plan on getting a mixer to go with it, because before i had no way of using the sidechain input on my pbc-6a without introducing a bunch of delay into my mix; and i didnt want to mess with exactly how many samples or miliseconds it offsets because that kinda stuff gives me a headache. thanks for the info man.

^messing with delay compensation isn't too tedious, it's so linear. It's not fun, but its not the worst thing to overcome.

i see, maybe i should try it out sometime then. im kinda kicking myself in the ass that i didnt ever try it with my FMR pbc-6a (this is a really great budget compressor in the vein of more expensive gear like the distressor and 1176- from the same people that make the RNC), but i guess i can do it next time i come across a piece of hardware with a sidecahin input.
have you done the delay compensation stuff before?do you do it often? i think im most intimidated by it because i havent done it before, but i bet after i tried it a few times i wouldnt be so skeptical about it. its just hard to visualize it in my head without actually doing it.

I don't do it often, but its pretty straight forward. When reason 6.5 dropped they had no delay compensation but introduced a bunch of devices with noticeable delay, so I used 100% wet delays to offset other devices lol. That wasn't fun, lol but a good way to get used to it. It's kind of like beat matching depending on how you set it up, and its way easier if you run a quantized rhythm through both channels first, sync them up. Then run your tracks through.

All this is kind of an old school approach, I'm sure there are tons of tools to help calculate delay and compensation. I think some programs might actually tell you how much it's offset? But I haven't used them.

either way, it's pretty one and done in terms of setting up unless you starting adding/subtracting from the signal chain.