WORKSHOP: how to know what key you're in?

I hear all the time about 'finding what key your sample is in' but my question is about how do you know?

Now I don't mean how do you find out the actual key I want to know what makes a sample a certain key.

I probably haven't explained myself properly so for example.

Is the first note of my sample the key the rest of the sample will be in?

Or is it the note which is most prevalent through out my sample how the key is determined?

It might make it easier if I state what I think 'key' means. I believe key to mean a specific note i.e. any one key on a piano (be it C3 or F6 etc).

The next step I hear people mention is 'to use other samples or play synths in the same key' to help make my beats sound better.

Now does that mean that once I know what key my sample is in I should play/find samples with the same key note in? Or should the first note be the key note? Could I play a pattern in the same note but in a higher/lower octave?

I think a few noobs and lazy/slow producers (me) will benefit greatly if these questions are answered but could you please make sure that if you reply, you don't repeat any knowledge dropped by others

Please add anything else which you feel will be beneficial and relates to the OG topic.

Thank you.

Thinking this shit through and I guess I've got it wrong unless each possible chord has it's own key as well as each individual key on a piano?

Elaborate on this also if necessary.

Peace

key does not mean one specific note, the term key refers to what scale the piece is played in?

ie) c major, a minor...

The 'key' of a piece is effectively referring to the musical scale that the piece is based around (exceptions apply). A scale is a progression of specific notes, for example a major scale or a minor scale - the white notes of a piano (starting on a C note) are the C major scale.

If you play an instrument, finding the scale used in a piece is rarely a problem, it's just something you can quickly work out by picking up your preferred musical instrument and playing. Once I start finding notes that 'fit' into the piece, it quickly becomes clear to me what kind of scale I'm playing. Then using my ear, I'll then locate the most natural 'root' note of the piece, which in most cases will indicate the key. For example, a song that uses the C Major scale may be in C major, but equally it may also be in A minor (which uses the same notes, but rooted around the A instead of the C). There are often further complications...

Some people have highly trained ears and perfect pitch and don't even need to pick up an instrument to work out the key. I'm normally pretty good at spotting certain keys, especially if they are played on a guitar, as I can often recognise which open strings are being played.

If you don't play an instrument, then obviously it's going to be harder to work these things out. My best advice is to work on finding the natural root note - grab a keyboard and load up a piano patch, put your sample on loop and try playing some of the lower notes until you hear something that sounds right. The root note of the scale will normally be the bass note played at bar 1 (i.e. the beginning of each natural measure). Not always though!

If you only have a single note sample, then all you need to do is either use your ears to find a note match using a piano patch, or even play it into a guitar tuning app on your phone. Just remember a single note doesn't define a scale on its own, it's just a single note - however if it was a 'C' bass note, you could certainly use it to play a 'C' rooted bass line, but it would be up to you to define the scale used with it (e.g. C minor, C Major etc) by the additional notes you play with it. Alternatively you can of course multisample that note (manually or via 16 levels etc) and use that note to create a performance in any key you want.

BTW, all of this assumes the samples you are working with are at 'concert pitch'!

Yeah so I totally had it screwed up in my head then. Thanks for the info Toranaga and Tutor.

From your detailed reply though it doesn't seem there is a straight answer as to what determines the key. It could be the overall sound of a sample or it could be the the first note played of a sample.

This leads me on to my next question: if I have a guitar sample, 4 bars long, chopped up and determine it to be in D minor. Should my accompanying bass line be in D minor or would just basing the bass around a D note give a similar effect?

Thanks again for that ultra in-depth response tutor.

mastasteez wrote:Yeah so I totally had it screwed up in my head then. Thanks for the info Toranaga and Tutor.

From your detailed reply though it doesn't seem there is a straight answer as to what determines the key. It could be the overall sound of a sample or it could be the the first note played of a sample.

This leads me on to my next question: if I have a guitar sample, 4 bars long, chopped up and determine it to be in D minor. Should my accompanying bass line be in D minor or would just basing the bass around a D note give a similar effect?

Thanks again for that ultra in-depth response tutor.

learn the scales, pick up a popster at guitar center that has all the scales mapped out for you, on the keyboard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_key

you're going to have to do some reading to really understand any sort of music theory. there's not any straight-answers out there.

but for your question about the guitar sample, you would want the bass line to be in the same key. all of the instruments should be playing in the same key. many songs don't even switch keys at all; they start in a key and stick with it. some artists can pull it off well, though.

I've been meaning to use these turorials that come with GarageBand for learning chords on a keyboard/piano but just haven't got round to it yet.

I will bump it up the priority list.

Cheers guys

The methods by which the key is established for a particular piece are not easy to explain, and vary considerably over the period of music history;

Seems my OG question isn't an easy one to answer.

Mostly I go with my gut for perfect pitches. It feels like harmony. Sometimes Duke Ellington tells me the chords in dreams too.

mastasteez wrote:This leads me on to my next question: if I have a guitar sample, 4 bars long, chopped up and determine it to be in D minor. Should my accompanying bass line be in D minor or would just basing the bass around a D note give a similar effect?

for your example, your bass or accompanying sample needs to be in the key of d minor also, you wont use all those notes, but you want to use the ones that are in the key of d minor if you want the bass to match up with your sample.
if you just use notes around d, you might be using a wrong note outside the scale that would clash with the original sample (which sometimes in free jazz, this kind of stuff works, but usually for most contempary music, or hip hop or whatever, you want to be in the original key with all your instruments).

mastasteez wrote:
This leads me on to my next question: if I have a guitar sample, 4 bars long, chopped up and determine it to be in D minor. Should my accompanying bass line be in D minor or would just basing the bass around a D note give a similar effect?

It should be in D minor, although there's nothing stopping you adding notes outside of the D minor scale to invoke a different mood and vibe, especially if the guitar chord sequence is playing other chords - you can adapt the scale to suit the chord playing at the time - basically it's very hard to set hard rules in these things.

I would say that if you are just looking to play a bass line under a chord sequence, try to determine the key (e.g. E), grab an E bass note (MIDI note 42 or 30) and experiment by playing a riff centered around that E note along with random other notes until you find other notes that fit. You don't have to learn scales as such, but over time you would get a feel as to what is working regardless.

Just be aware that while a song can be in a certain key, its chord progressions will not just use chords that consist of notes in that scale. For example, a song in Am can happily use all the chords that are made up of the white notes of the keyboard:

C, Am, F, G and Dm

But often when playing in Am, people will drop in an E chord, which uses a G# note, which is most definitely not in the Am scale (but is in the A harmonic minor scale!). So you could be fine playing a G# at that point, but often not when an Am is playing (of course you can if you want though- music shouldn't be about rules!!!)

As I say, it's hard to make it black and white, which is why I prefer to just take it as it comes sometimes. This is why I've never really made any music theory tutorials, I think for most people it's overkill and can actually get in the way of their creativity. I think you'll pick up a lot of this naturally the more you play.

Check it.

You can also use a spectrum analyzer which will let you to know the root key