Annoying sampling problem that won't go away

JAH wrote:I spent the evening looking into this. I can reproduce this issue if I use two audio interfaces...my Apollo as the Output device and the Ren as my input device. The problem can surface immediately or it may take a minute or so.

I tried to see if I can sync the two audio devices. However, the Ren can only sync internally. And so far, I cannot get the Apollo to sync to the Ren's SPDIF port (noting I am using a cheap RCA cable). This was in an effort to see if this would solve the problem.

This is exactly what I said above in the lengthy testing I did i between trying to hook up with Akai support...If using them at teh same time with one as input and other as output...does matter which..

I left it out of my post, but my interfaces were in sync and it still happens. I do not have manual control over the sync for my interface, it ayncs automatically and the control panel displays its sync rate.

Personally, I'm ot worried about correcting it, I just am cool knowing what is causing it.... I can understand others though who need it to work this way based on thier setup...

DaizM wrote:

JAH wrote:I spent the evening looking into this. I can reproduce this issue if I use two audio interfaces...my Apollo as the Output device and the Ren as my input device. The problem can surface immediately or it may take a minute or so.

I tried to see if I can sync the two audio devices. However, the Ren can only sync internally. And so far, I cannot get the Apollo to sync to the Ren's SPDIF port (noting I am using a cheap RCA cable). This was in an effort to see if this would solve the problem.

This is exactly what I said above in the lengthy testing I did i between trying to hook up with Akai support...If using them at teh same time with one as input and other as output...does matter which..

I left it out of my post, but my interfaces were in sync and it still happens. I do not have manual control over the sync for my interface, it ayncs automatically and the control panel displays its sync rate.

Personally, I'm ot worried about correcting it, I just am cool knowing what is causing it.... I can understand others though who need it to work this way based on thier setup...

I reported the issue to Akai. How are you syncing your interfaces? The Ren can't be a slave. You interface automatically syncs to the Ren? How...via SPDIF or USB?

JAH wrote:
I reported the issue to Akai. How are you syncing your interfaces? The Ren can't be a slave. You interface automatically syncs to the Ren? How...via SPDIF or USB?

Im somewhat assuming via usb. as i adjust the sample rate in the Ren software the control panel for the Alesis will update its 'clock rate ' to reflect the newly chosen rate. of course this may not necessarily mean the clocks are actually in good sync, i know, i'm somewhat assuming sync based on the change in sample rate. i really have no way to manually force it to slave in the alesis driver by selecting a clock source as this device typically would rely on a daw config setting to define what wasthe master. wondering if no clear master is being resolved and ultimately resulting in drift or jitter???

in AMS (im on os x) you used to be able to click a drop down and select a clock source...just noticed this is not an option in 10.7.5...when both interfaces are on and then ren software running , the clock source for both just says 'hardware' and cannot be changed. which is probably the answer for me....perhaps the alesis probably cannot be a slave if i cannot select this ... the only way i would be able to do it is with an aggregate device, but neither interface appears in the list so they cannot be selected in order to aggregate which would allow me to set a master.

i also meant to write in my post that it did "not" matter which was set as the input, the artifacts would be heard in the output of the other interface. Just wanted to correct that cuz it looked like i was saying it "does" matter. When each is used exclusively it does not happen.

I did relay my findings to the Tech i was corresponding with, but i do not know if he forwarded it on to anyone.

Interesting...just looked in the manual for my interface and found this (applies to windows drivers, but the point may apply regardless for this interface..)

Choosing the MultiMix as your audio device
Unlike ASIO, WDM allows multiple audio devices to be used at the same time. However, doing so can cause all sorts of synchronization problems. Therefore, we suggest that you use the MultiMix as your sole audio input/output device.

Thanks, for the tip DaizM.!
Didn't read that.

peace

Two devices synced with WDM drivers would be a nightmare to actually use even if you got them synced properly. You'd be looking at 30-100ms latency at minimum, playing the pads or MIDI controllers would be basically unusable. WDM is not suited for much more than running multimedia sound for media players, games and web sound.

Things like that are the main reason no one really tries to use 2 interfaces at once on a Windows based DAW.

Metatron72 wrote:Two devices synced with WDM drivers would be a nightmare to actually use even if you got them synced properly. You'd be looking at 30-100ms latency at minimum, playing the pads or MIDI controllers would be basically unusable. WDM is not suited for much more than running multimedia sound for media players, games and web sound.

Things like that are the main reason no one really tries to use 2 interfaces at once on a Windows based DAW.

Yeah I remember from when I used to use Pc's (now use OS x) WDM is horrible. I was posting that more to note that the documentation for my interface was stating that it probably will not perform well when used simultaneously with another interface. So I'm pretty much SOL regardless of what Akai may be able to do to help the issue if I want to use two. I good with using the Ren exclusively for its work, I'm just going to use a switch box for the monitors...

I've only chimed in on this thread as I noticed you had OS X guys using two interfaces having this issue, but some Windows guys are only using one and still experiencing issues.

I still think if this is being seen in both scenarios on the respective OS's it has to be rooted in the driver on Windows and the parts of the code that interact with Core Audio if you're on OS X.

I'd imagine if enough people can report the situations with details that happen on both the OS's Akai would not have too hard a time to pinpoint the cause and straighten it out pretty quick in a future update.

Metatron72 wrote:I've only chimed in on this thread as I noticed you had OS X guys using two interfaces having this issue, but some Windows guys are only using one and still experiencing issues.

I still think if this is being seen in both scenarios on the respective OS's it has to be rooted in the driver on Windows and the parts of the code that interact with Core Audio if you're on OS X.

I'd imagine if enough people can report the situations with details that happen on both the OS's Akai would not have too hard a time to pinpoint the cause and straighten it out pretty quick in a future update.

+1 makes sense

DaizM wrote:

Metatron72 wrote:I've only chimed in on this thread as I noticed you had OS X guys using two interfaces having this issue, but some Windows guys are only using one and still experiencing issues.

I still think if this is being seen in both scenarios on the respective OS's it has to be rooted in the driver on Windows and the parts of the code that interact with Core Audio if you're on OS X.

I'd imagine if enough people can report the situations with details that happen on both the OS's Akai would not have too hard a time to pinpoint the cause and straighten it out pretty quick in a future update.

+1 makes sense

.....while it seems like a cool idea to be able to select an Input and Output device in the Ren's preferences, most DAWs won't allow you to have multiple audio interfaces selected in their Audio preferences. Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc allows you to select only one device in preferences.

Metatron72 wrote:I'd imagine if enough people can report the situations with details that happen on both the OS's Akai would not have too hard a time to pinpoint the cause and straighten it out pretty quick in a future update.

JAH wrote:.....while it seems like a cool idea to be able to select an Input and Output device in the Ren's preferences, .

It doesn't make the idea unless cool or useful because the Ren is incapable of it.

moyphee wrote:

JAH wrote:.....while it seems like a cool idea to be able to select an Input and Output device in the Ren's preferences, .

It doesn't make the idea unless cool or useful because the Ren is incapable of it.

I personally don't care either way. But reported the issue. I use my Apollo only as the audio I/O.

How is your Ren set-up?

JAH wrote: Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc allows you to select only one device in preferences.

Logic will allow you to select one device as an input and another as an output.

Brothers3 wrote:

JAH wrote: Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc allows you to select only one device in preferences.

Logic will allow you to select one device as an input and another as an output.

You can Aggregate in Pro Tools. Mac only though....