MPC FLY WITH BEATMAKER 2?

coolderb wrote:

JazzyDrewProductions wrote:I guess I can only speak for myself but I've done that many times only to be given very political corporate answers from akai and retronyms. Akai is purposely holding back. And due to the fact that they left it very disabled leads me to believe that it won't gain ground on bm2 ever. Just my opinion. When I first got it I was a big advocat for it but now. I'm not holding my breath

Their "strategy" is really baffling.I can see them not being enthusiastic about having the Fly work with BM2,but the iMPC app. which works well with the Fly standalone is crippled within their own Tabletop environment.Retronyms says they are working to fix it,but what were they doing for the last 15 months since they announced the Fly and demoed the iMPC app?You would think that they would have had it all working by now.It seems as if the Akai/Retronyms partnership is shakey.They keep pointing the finger at each other and the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing:)

Baffling, exactly. I had mentioned in another thread how I saw a Retronyms rep on their Facebook page answering questions this past summer. As soon as I asked them to elaborate on how iMPC was going to handle Core MIDI and by extension what could they tell me about the Fly as far as Core MIDI. No answer, straight crickets. I knew then this would play out like it has.

Fair enough that the two firms primary focus is their own apps but "most" apps in the spec sheet referencing Core MIDI turned out to be the catch. From the posted video you can see that the Fly's default MIDI doesn't follow any accepted MIDI mapping. At first I thought it was a standard MIDI GM Drum mapping, which is somewhat random numbers and not in chromatic order. but it's not, it's just totally random. Almost looks like it was done on purpose to ruin your day if you want to actually utilize the advertised Core MIDI support, and again that whole "most apps" thing.

So little needed to happen to avoid all this. First why did they make a MIDI controller that can only send 16 out of 127 note values? Bank switches or octave transpose buttons would have helped.(although it would have been 4banks at most and only covered 64 MIDI note values).

The solution to that could have been so simple. They could have made a free app that let's you map the Fly and have that app capable of writing the mappings to the Fly. Even if it was still just the one bank of 16 pads you could quickly switch over to the map app and load a different one and go back to your music app. We're all used to swapping between apps at this point anyway. This would be a way around how Apple has made the devices so closed and that a desktop app for mapping isn't as feasible. Plus obviously you'd prefer to handle mappings on the device itself.

we're talking about a company that sells you hardware, and then makes you BUY the intended software separately.

not even a stripped down version of impc included with the fly? is that even possible?

tapedeck wrote:we're talking about a company that sells you hardware, and then makes you BUY the intended software separately.

not even a stripped down version of impc included with the fly? is that even possible?

Talk about nickeling and diming! I realize the app. is only $7, but from a marketing standpoint it is really ignorant to make purchasers of a $200-$300 piece of hardware pay for the required software. They will probably blame it on the Apple AppStore setup, but Apple allows developers to provide codes to their customers. If that is too complicated just throw in a $10 iTunes gift card in the package with the MPC Fly. Whatever! They don't seem to have a well thought out strategy for any of their recent products.Akai has become huge on hype, small on quality.

Maybe they are busy working on a "Pro" version that Fly customers will be able to upgrade to for free.

Lol, Fat Chance.

AND ON THAT NOTE I FIND IT FUNNY THAT RETONYMS IS BLAMING APPLE FOR THE IMPC UPDATE/FAIL FIASCO. HOW COULD YOU MAKE YOUR OWN COMPANY LOOK ANY WORSE?

"OKAY, I'M GOING TO BELIEVE THIS CRAPPY START-UP APP COMPANY WITH A SMALL CATALOGUE OF DYSFUNCTIONAL PROGRAMS HAD ALL OF THEIR SHIT IN ORDER FOR THE UPDATE, ONLY TO BE WRONGED BY APPLE."

funkycoldmedina wrote:AND ON THAT NOTE I FIND IT FUNNY THAT RETONYMS IS BLAMING APPLE FOR THE IMPC UPDATE/FAIL FIASCO. HOW COULD YOU MAKE YOUR OWN COMPANY LOOK ANY WORSE?

"OKAY, I'M GOING TO BELIEVE THIS CRAPPY START-UP APP COMPANY WITH A SMALL CATALOGUE OF DYSFUNCTIONAL PROGRAMS HAD ALL OF THEIR **** IN ORDER FOR THE UPDATE, ONLY TO BE WRONGED BY APPLE."

This exchange from the Akai "Support" site explains their "strategy":

"Tanyon Sturtz 7 days ago
Ok thanks. Any news on whether the impc app is ever going to update and become worth using? It would be a lot easier if we could just use the Fly for the app it was intended for, but the complete lack of so many basic features just makes the impc app a toy, not a music program. It's really a shame. You guys could be totally dominating the market, but instead you're mysteriously choking while confusing and frustrating thousands of people.

J Sandeen (Technical Representative) 7 days ago
Yes, the iMPC app is not like a full blown MPC, but it's not designed to be that.

If you want to full MPC experience, we already have that. This is for getting ideas down and expanding later.

Sorry you are not happy with the app. All I can do is forward feature request. Users also post to the retronyms forum, as they will be implementing the new features anyhow. "

Akai wants us to buy the Fly then the Studio and then the Ren!

Then they will abandon all of that and come out with a whole new lineup of products with that Legendary MPC Workflow and Feel:)

the fact that you people keep buying and supporting Akai/numark helps them to keep ripping off and using musicians.. its sad... akai is like the government, THEY DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT YOU OR YOUR **** NEEDS, JUST THEIR OWN HIDDEN AGENDA.. chew on that shit for a while.........

Yeah man the attitude is stand-offish with a smile. Which no serious user has any time for.

They may as well just go all the way and say that they don't care about the serious users MPC's catered to for the majority of the product line's lifespan. Obviously Ren and Studio can still be used for serious work, but it's like they are far more concerned with appealing to the opposite crowd in so far as their marketing and decisions.

I can't imagine how much money they wasted to do those producer videos while by all accounts have like 6 people coding for them.

As far as funkycoldmedina's statement, you gotta remember that while Retronyms can clearly code Tabletop is a complete rip off of another company's flash based web app.

http://www.audiotool.com/

Follow the link and press "Launch App" in the upper right corner.

Personally I'll still use iMPC here and there to make some quick loops. But I don't have any need to work with arbitrary and totally ridiculous limitations. The statement you quoted coolderb shows they are shook that if the app was fully functional no one would buy the new "hardware" MPC's.

VST's have been running for almost 2 decades now and people still buy hardware synths. Some do take the cheaper route, but the market doesn't die because software alternatives exist.

Sadly this all played out exactly as I feared as soon as the app was announced.

inflict3 you're dead right, they're just playing "politricks" with us.

coolderb wrote:

coolderb wrote:Just saw this reply on the Akai site:


Tanyon Sturtz 1 day ago



Useful MPC Fly?




Anyone know how to use the MPC Fly with Beatmaker 2 instead of the pathetic impc app?

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J Sandeen (Technical Representative) 13 hours ago


If the application you are using does not have MIDI Learn it will be hard as you will not be able to assign the pads from the hardware. You can use another third party such as tabletop to use MIDI learn through another app. Tabletop can run apps within itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQS0qp... (not the best demo)

WTF is he talking about? He knows full well we can't run Beatmaker from within Tabletop!

this is the video he linked:

I think his point is that he knows this. tabletop = impc = akai = retronyms = compatibility = co branding bed fellows.
Its a conflict of interest for akai to assist with using fly with bm2. at least i'd think so. fly and impc were conceived together and sold separately. its like asking microsoft how to use a zune with itunes.

Metatron72 wrote:Yeah man the attitude is stand-offish with a smile. Which no serious user has any time for.

They may as well just go all the way and say that they don't care about the serious users MPC's catered to for the majority of the product line's lifespan. Obviously Ren and Studio can still be used for serious work, but it's like they are far more concerned with appealing to the opposite crowd in so far as their marketing and decisions.

I can't imagine how much money they wasted to do those producer videos while by all accounts have like 6 people coding for them.

As far as funkycoldmedina's statement, you gotta remember that while Retronyms can clearly code Tabletop is a complete rip off of another company's flash based web app.

http://www.audiotool.com/

Follow the link and press "Launch App" in the upper right corner.

Personally I'll still use iMPC here and there to make some quick loops. But I don't have any need to work with arbitrary and totally ridiculous limitations. The statement you quoted coolderb shows they are shook that if the app was fully functional no one would buy the new "hardware" MPC's.

VST's have been running for almost 2 decades now and people still buy hardware synths. Some do take the cheaper route, but the market doesn't die because software alternatives exist.

Sadly this all played out exactly as I feared as soon as the app was announced.

inflict3 you're dead right, they're just playing "politricks" with us.

brings to mind a few email messages i exchanged with someone at retronyms.

"It makes sense that some people wish for more pro-level features. Our goal was to make an affordable app that puts an MPC in the hands of people who never got to own the classics."

doesnt really address the lack of basic functionality but the idea is, according to the guy i spoke to "iMPC works in Tabletop adding advanced sequencing, arrangement, FX routing, midi mapping, and more — all for free." so the entire idea is all about conflict of interest or rather protecting ones interest. seems that they may be shooting themselves in the feets.

leading to the review all was good but when i gave it a 2.5 stars and asked for more features that MPC users have come to expect the the response no further communication. never another peep.

oh well. i will only try to give honest reviews. maybe that doesnt work for some. BM2 is far superior even if there are wishlist items for Bm 2 still far superior. doesnt mean impc is unusable just not as robust as bm2.

To expect them to walk you through it sure. To expect that it can be done easily, that is not unreasonable.

They advertise the Fly as compatible with "most" core MIDI software. But come to find out the thing is hardwired to a MIDI mapping that is neither chromatic or GM Drum standard. Page 4 of this thread Nekkron99's vid shows this clearly.

So here's Akai using a bullet point in the spec sheet to appeal to you regarding the supposed versatility of the device, then purposefully making the default MIDI note numbers match no accepted mapping standard. One would have to assume on purpose.

But yeah from your post psr, you see where everybody in this thread is kinda looking at the two companies like "c'mon son".

And yeah Crickets anytime I've tried to get a serious answer or even just explanation if they aren't going to budge.

Metatron72 wrote:To expect them to walk you through it sure. To expect that it can be done easily, that is not unreasonable.

They advertise the Fly as compatible with "most" core MIDI software. But come to find out the thing is hardwired to a MIDI mapping that is neither chromatic or GM Drum standard. Page 4 of this thread Nekkron99's vid shows this clearly.

So here's Akai using a bullet point in the spec sheet to appeal to you regarding the supposed versatility of the device, then purposefully making the default MIDI note numbers match no accepted mapping standard. One would have to assume on purpose.

But yeah from your post psr, you see where everybody in this thread is kinda looking at the two companies like "c'mon son".

And yeah Crickets anytime I've tried to get a serious answer or even just explanation if they aren't going to budge.

Yet another scathing review:
http://slipmatsoptional.wordpress.com/tag/akai-mpc-fly-30


Its beginning to seem as if Akai and Retronym's relationship has soured. Its hard to tell who is at fault,but the iMPC and Tabletop software are costing Akai hardware sales and Retronym's rep. as software developers has certainly taken a hit via the iMPC and MPC Fly debacles.

Well one of the first statements, likely reported by you coolderb, was it's up to Akai. So that does imply Retronyms maybe wants to go further, but as the app is a farmed out developer proposition they just do what is asked of them.

But look at the Arturia Moog they just did. They basically took a $99-$149 VST/AU and ported it almost 1:1 for $20. That's a good bunch of coders without a doubt.

And in spite of the fact I pointed out they "bit" Tabletop it's still damn impressive to have that running on an iOS device.

I know this forum and many users (certainly I'll concede it about myself maybe looking that way ) come off as just straight hating on Akai. But I feel it's more the disappointment that we aren't asking for the world, and our expectations are far from unreasonable. They seem to miss the fact that if you just meet an open minded intermediate to power user halfway we'll break a lot of bread and they'll get paid more.

I think also they may lose sight of the fact that on forums like this and Facebook pages and so on users like us will help them to get that newcomer mainstream audience too and help those folks accelerate their new hobby.

We're not mad because we are divisive, the opposite really.

"Undo triggered a snare...", wow. Peeping the review at the moment, just wow.

it should maybe be said that no matter how you expand your offering you should never ignore your core market and early adopters. want to make a new cool app? remember to focus on your core markets needs. and uhh dont advertise stuff that the product cant do. core midi is what it is. never saw it work only "sort of"

as for the fly, it struck me as rather odd that it was only being sold on akai's sight for a lower than expected price and renamed to mpc fly 30.

says fire sale to me. you know it says "get rid of the obsolete stock because we manufactured more than we should have and waited too long to get them out there. why didnt anyone complete the dev on this thing? (damn ren updates), now apple is readying new devices with lightning connectors? we R SCREWED! SELL SELL SELL"

they will likely fix things up on the next iteration which will likely be compatible with new iOS devices.

^This 100.

Oh Dead Stock is Limited Edition in In Music Land...

Akai means red so I'll overlook the fact my only current choice is having a Piru/Damu looking iPad.

Yeah it's confirmed, the next imminent one is thunderbolt and is $100 more. Never mind the connector can not cost them more than $1 extra.

inflict3 wrote:the fact that you people keep buying and supporting Akai/numark helps them to keep ripping off and using musicians.. its sad... akai is like the government, THEY DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT YOU OR YOUR **** NEEDS, JUST THEIR OWN HIDDEN AGENDA.. chew on that **** for a while.........

Very true. I'll take a chance on a relatively small ticket item like the Fly with the possibility that it would work with a solid app.such as Beatmaker2. With the assistance of Intua and Midibridge's founder we were able to get it to work.

No way I would spend money on Akai's big ticket items such as the Ren or even Studio after witnessing what they did to the 1000, 5000 and 500 customers

The lack of support, lack of communication, lack of engineering and lack of planning are not qualities that will make a company competitive in this day and age. It is also apparent that Akai has not invested in the proper resources to remedy those problems which have eroded it's market share for the past 10 or so years.

what im saying is u guys need to look at this and not support akai/numark/alesis, or any other one of their sub companies in any way shape or form... dont give them any of your money. giving them even a few dollars on a app or sticker is still supporting them and helping em to keep ripping people off....**** akai!!!! im gonna start supporting Livid, they are even USA made...its time to start not supporting crooks..we need to make a stand..we have companies like akai ripping us off, we got companies feeding us GMOs and laws passed saying if we get sick from it nothing happens to the company..we need to stand the **** up and stop being pussies, we need to stand for something or we will fall for anything, and we are falling very fast!