Anybody missing a pitch envelope or mod envelope in the samp

This is the most active MPC technical support section in this forum. Nothing new or relevant has been discussed in most of the other forums for several years. I can't think of a better place to be confined to as this is my primary MPC.

Now that we got that out of the way...feel free to contribute to the actual topic which is Pitch Envelopes. Off the top of my head, at least two of the MPC Expansion instruments included with the Ren have Pitch Envelopes.

JAH wrote:Nothing new or relevant has been discussed in most of the other forums for several years.

You should be confined to Wakai's own forum with a comment like that.

Coz wrote:
The 4K can achieve the same envelope curves as the 2KXL, which is what people were requesting.

Just got finished looking at this. The MPC 4000 attempts to mimic the curves of the MPC 3000 (same as the MPC 1000, 2KXL, 2500, etc) by doing the following:

1. MPC 3000s Amp Envelope Attack/Decay + Decay Mode Start. MPC 4000 attempts to achieve this by setting it's Sustain to '0' and setting Decay and Release to the same value.

2. MPC 3000s Amp Envelope Attack/Decay + Decay Mode End. MPC 4000 attempts to achieve this by setting it's Sustain to '100' and setting the Decay and Release to the same value.

What is funny is that similar settings were suggested to achieve this in the Ren with its current OS. Trying to achieve the MPC 3000s Amp envelope in this manner fails. Loading programs (that heavily uses the Amp envelope) of the classic MPCs into the MPC 4000 make them sound nothing like the source. So not only must you use an additional param to achieve this....it simply doesn't work as expected.

Yes, pitch envelope/mod matrix all welcomed and needed. Its 2013, we expect a sampler to do a little more than they could 20 years ago. Not all samplists are about cutting loops up and playing them back almost untreated. The samplist takes on many forms and one of them is involved sample/sound manipulation.

Jah - stamping your 3rd grade commie ideology in every thread.
Your defacto response is always one of the below:

A: No previous MPC had xxx feature
B: Use another piece of gear/plugin
C: My own xxx plugin doesn't do yyy

This thread - a discussion about the (ren) samplers features (or lack of) you go for a mixture of option A and B. Thankfully your not the head of world medical research.

You worship the idea of the Ren becoming a fully fledged Daw (which it never will). Anyone wishing to discuss any ideas to improve the sampling and sequencing of the Ren (the core functionality of MPCs) must be stamped on immediately because in your mind any idea out with your own boundaries which may gain traction will divert the devs away from your fantasy. Not only are you a group think agenda driver, your a hypocrite.

The Ren may not have sold in high volume numbers but I would have still expected more debate on the forum, or at the every least a more interesting level of debate. But that lack of debate and topic interest factor isnt just about the Rens sales, I believe this part of the forum is stifled by you. I don't think I'm alone when I say that I gave up trying to have discussions on this forum becasue I cant be arsed debating with a 3rd grade internet warrior who has zero concept of how producers who actually produce records think.
I've said my piece.


(None of this is intended as a slant toward you Tutor)

For clarification.... I spent quite a bit of time reading posts from you and others claiming they expect more from the Ren because it can't do X. That you can't make modern music with the Ren because of XX. Then get irate when I point out XXX.

I see so many demands being placed on this product. When I discuss the Ren, I am talking about the entire market place not just MPCs. There are no products past or present that meet these demands. And since this is the case...that is when I point out that you can send your feature suggestions to Akai. I send a lot of suggestions to Akai on behalf of forum members. So when individuals get frustrated that the Ren can't do XX, I provide support to recommend methods you can employ to meet your demands....such as use a more powerful sampler plugin. This really should end the conversation but it doesn't. That is when the 'usual suspects'...like clockwork...go on a rant and start bashing the product, developers, etc...or in this case, an actual Ren user that sees thing quite differently....Half full instead of half empty.

It's not very mature to get pissed at me for pointing out what should be obvious for those who claim they actually produce records. "Use a product that actually meets your needs."

For the record...my idea for the Ren is for it to be the best sampling drum machine workstation on the market. And Akai is delivering just that IMO. Does it need to be a fully fledged DAW? For me...I would like to see it get to a level where there is no reason to open up a DAW. You can label it however you like WHEN it gets there.

So you wrap things up by saying you came here for a debate? Nobody wants to debate every topic....especially when individuals can't be mature and disagree. In this thread...nobody is disagreeing on whether or not pitch envelopes should be added.

andreat668 wrote:I mean after some months i just read a pile of **** from this user, not just a valuable suggestion or concrete posts.

JAH wrote: So when individuals get frustrated that the Ren can't do XX, I provide support to recommend methods you can employ to meet your demands....such as use a more powerful sampler plugin. .

labcoats wrote:
Jah - stamping your 3rd grade commie ideology in every thread.
Your defacto response is always one of the below:

A: No previous MPC had xxx feature
B: Use another piece of gear/plugin
C: My own xxx plugin doesn't do yyy

I dunno why Jah feel like he the person that say no or yes what go in ren, when he just a middle man between the forum bug report list and akai, he got his roles confused

Personally I'd contact Pete from akai directly by private messaging him, also seems like akai is monitoring this forum which is good. Create your feature suggestions thread something along the lines of " 1.5 feature suggestion/improvement" or like hellfires thread "few enhancements I'd like to see" kinda what Jah been doing anyway

All I have to say is order your Ren now before they go on back order or prices rise. Don't say I didn't warn you.

JAH wrote:The MPC 4000 attempts to mimic the curves of the MPC 3000 (same as the MPC 1000, 2KXL, 2500, etc)

As the first MPC with AHDSR, the 4K makes no attempt to 'mimic' other MPCs. It just so happens that it can because it's a flexible envelope. The routing power of the mod matrix also means that the Filter, Amp and Aux envelopes become limitless in what can be achieved.

JAH wrote:MPC 3000s Amp Envelope Attack/Decay + Decay Mode End. MPC 4000 attempts to achieve this by setting it's Sustain to '100' and setting the Decay and Release to the same value.

No wonder it 'simply doesn't work as expected'. You're not doing it right!

To achieve an AHD envelope in the 4K you need to drop the Sustain and Release to zero and turn Hold on. It's this level of buffoonery that compels me to post and correct the obvious user errors.

What I suggest is you set up a new thread comparing the envelope behaviour of the 3K, 4K, Ren 1.4 and JJOS (now you're aware that it has this functionality), and I will post a sample with an obvious pop or click at the end for reference. Users can then determine in an audio editor what is the most effective at removing the pop without impacting the rest of the sample.

JAH wrote:All I have to say is order your Ren now before they go on back order or prices rise. Don't say I didn't warn you.

thought you was going to send me money so I can buy one, so quick to forget, put your money where you mouth is for once

Coz wrote:

JAH wrote:

JAH wrote:MPC 3000s Amp Envelope Attack/Decay + Decay Mode End. MPC 4000 attempts to achieve this by setting it's Sustain to '100' and setting the Decay and Release to the same value.

No wonder it 'simply doesn't work as expected'. You're not doing it right!

To achieve an AHD envelope in the 4K you need to drop the Sustain and Release to zero and turn Hold on. It's this level of buffoonery that compels me to post and correct the obvious user errors.

What I suggest is you set up a new thread comparing the envelope behaviour of the 3K, 4K, Ren 1.4 and JJOS (now you're aware that it has this functionality), and I will post a sample with an obvious pop or click at the end for reference. Users can then determine in an audio editor what is the most effective at removing the pop without impacting the rest of the sample.

not very expert like Jah, not very expert like...not the first time either

Coz wrote:

JAH wrote:The MPC 4000 attempts to mimic the curves of the MPC 3000 (same as the MPC 1000, 2KXL, 2500, etc)

As the first MPC with AHDSR, the 4K makes no attempt to 'mimic' other MPCs. It just so happens that it can because it's a flexible envelope. The routing power of the mod matrix also means that the Filter, Amp and Aux envelopes become limitless in what can be achieved.

JAH wrote:MPC 3000s Amp Envelope Attack/Decay + Decay Mode End. MPC 4000 attempts to achieve this by setting it's Sustain to '100' and setting the Decay and Release to the same value.

No wonder it 'simply doesn't work as expected'. You're not doing it right!

To achieve an AHD envelope in the 4K you need to drop the Sustain and Release to zero and turn Hold on. It's this level of buffoonery that compels me to post and correct the obvious user errors.

What I suggest is you set up a new thread comparing the envelope behaviour of the 3K, 4K, Ren 1.4 and JJOS (now you're aware that it has this functionality), and I will post a sample with an obvious pop or click at the end for reference. Users can then determine in an audio editor what is the most effective at removing the pop without impacting the rest of the sample.

You obviously can't read worth a damn.

I told you what the MPC 4000 does when it loads MPC 3000 programs. Don't get mad at me for reporting what your favorite MPC does. The MPC 3000 doesn't have a hold. It has a decay mode. The decay mode has two types of behaviors that the MPC 4000 doesn't mimic using Sustain and Release set to 0 and turning Hold On the way you described; it just doesn't duplicate it. But I applaud you efforts at a work around (using the routing power of the mod matrix and all to achieve a basic MPC function)....as that is what I have been writing about here myself.

Tip - according to the MPC 4000s manual, you can adjust the sample's loop start point to decide where the decay will begin. I haven't tried this though but seems a lot easier than using a mod matrix. Both methods seem like a lot of extra stuff that the MPC 1000, 2000, 2000XL, 2500, 3000, etc can do with no fuss.

JAH wrote:I told you what the MPC 4000 does when it loads MPC 3000 programs.

In the time it has taken to me to respond in this thread I could have trained a chimp to use the 4K, but you old boy are a lost cause I'm afraid.

Try sampling into the machine and using the settings I suggested, or alternatively lets conduct a test. Nobody on this board is prepared to accept your word on anything related to MPC functionality. Especially when it comes to comparing features.

Coz wrote:

JAH wrote:I told you what the MPC 4000 does when it loads MPC 3000 programs.

In the time it has taken to me to respond in this thread I could have trained a chimp to use the 4K, but you old boy are a lost cause I'm afraid.

Try sampling into the machine and using the settings I suggested, or alternatively lets conduct a test. Nobody on this board is prepared to accept your word on anything related to MPC functionality. Especially when it comes to comparing features.

I am the only one that actually own all these MPCs we are discussing. Frankly, I don't care if you accept my word. You claim you have an MPC 4000. If so, acquire some MPC 3000 drum kits and see how poorly they translate yourself.

If actual Ren users ask me to perform some tests, I will.

JAH wrote:If so, acquire some MPC 3000 drum kits and see how poorly they translate yourself.

PM me the files and I'll confirm or deny what you're saying. Funky translations aside, it's not the point of what we're discussing.

The 4K can easily and quickly replicate the envelope behaviour of the 2KXL to remove pops and clicks. If you want to add to the knowledge base of the forum you should conduct a test.

JAH wrote:.... acquire some MPC 3000 drum kits and see how poorly they translate yourself.

and in the ren currently (1.3.1)?
import 3000 files with decay settings like these?
without a 'from end' or 'hold' parameter?

however we know that was never the point of an otherwise useful thread.