Using the Ren to send midi out inside your DAW!

Found out recently that Live can't be used in the same fashion as Pro Tools in this regard. When the Ren plugin sends data via 16 MIDI channels, Live combines them to only 1 channel. So basically, Live users will have to pester its developers to add this capability.

Doesnt seem to be sending any signal full stop

and AU version of maschine sends midi so I cant see why the same version of the ren wouldnt do this it seems pretty stupid having a midi controller that is not fully functional in midi controlling

Metatron72 wrote:

MaxWheeler wrote:Are they gonna get the AU plug to route midi

Never. The AU sdk for the most part does not allow for MIDI out. On OS X with a VST host present there is no real benefit to using AU whatsoever.

chopchop wrote:Doesnt seem to be sending any signal full stop

and AU version of maschine sends midi so I cant see why the same version of the ren wouldnt do this it seems pretty stupid having a midi controller that is not fully functional in midi controlling

I'm not an AU expert. Which of you gentleman's statement about AU is accurate?

The top one. It is theoretically possible in AU SDK, but it's been utilized like 1 out of 1000 times.

http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/view ... f=8&t=9523

That link will be of no help to the specific topic at hand (Ren+ "x" DAW), but it's a quick glance at what developers have to deal with to get MIDI Out working like a VST in an AU. Many just give up and bundle a VST version and note in the manual "want MIDI Out, use the VST version).

Again it's coders going back forth but the first few posts are easy to see what the conversation is about. One poster from Arturia even mentions how they had to use the IAC "behind the scenes" to get the MIDI out working. I guess you might call that the "rich man's version of the 'poor man's IAC" workarounds many Ren users have been exploring and utilizing.

So long story short MIDI out in AU is possible in the AU SDK but a bit of a pain to implement from a coding standpoint.

I think after the next couple updates they really need to consider a dedicated controller mode like Maschine. It's such a simple solution to so many MIDI headaches when using something like the Ren/Studio or Maschine in a DAW.

I imagine they might be afraid it would cut into MPD sales, but I don't really think it would hurt those sales at all, given the huge price margin with MPDS being a $100-$250 thing and the Ren over a $1000. So while the general audience is the same it's different economies and user needs, so they may as well do a controller mode. It would just be another good selling point, and one more thing it's matched Maschine on.

Id be happy to get midi out the vst or au ive been trying using the vst

Metatron72 wrote:I think after the next couple updates they really need to consider a dedicated controller mode like Maschine. It's such a simple solution to so many MIDI headaches when using something like the Ren/Studio or Maschine in a DAW.

What type of MIDI headaches are you having when using the Ren as a instrument in your DAW?

The only issue(s) I have is that I would like to have all 64 independent MIDI channels available to route to the DAWs Instrument/MIDI Tracks. As of 1.3, I can only route 16 MIDI channels; noting that 64 channels are still available for external instruments but must be routed through your DAW. I would also like to have the option not to route 1 or all of the Ren's Outputs to the DAW when used as a plugin...and simply route through straight to the Ren's output ports.

Jerome (I won't type your avatar name, it's offensive to 2 separate religions), just stop. You know I don't have a Ren, and if you don''t realize by now I simply know MIDI/DAW/software general operations really well you're blind.

But I know, to you "me not owning Ren" means you "win" the...conversation... Because these are seldom arguments.

I'm glad you guys find ways to get some of this done. But it's a foolish argument that a controller mode that would make a lot of this easier, if that's your latest "agenda".

Anyway figures you'd find the one part of my post that is a general observation and try feebly to make an argument out of it, and ignore the technical info that was given to answer your question fairly directly.

Metatron72 wrote:Jerome (I won't type your avatar name, it's offensive to 2 separate religions), just stop. You know I don't have a Ren, and if you don''t realize by now I simply know MIDI/DAW/software general operations really well you're blind.

But I know, to you "me not owning Ren" means you "win" the...conversation... Because these are seldom arguments.

I'm glad you guys find ways to get some of this done. But it's a foolish argument that a controller mode that would make a lot of this easier, if that's your latest "agenda".

Anyway figures you'd find the one part of my post that is a general observation and try feebly to make an argument out of it, and ignore the technical info that was given to answer your question fairly directly.

You are tripping. I have no way of knowing if your purchased a Ren or Studio lately. I use MIDI a lot in the Ren. So if there is a specific MIDI issue you were having (or a feature you wanted), I would submit it directly to the developers to take a look at. That is my only agenda. *Tutor publicly acknowledged he is testing so you can send your ideas to him.

The controller mode was an idea already submitted. Akai developers responded publicly about the idea. The said they wouldn't be developing an app for that (they have been known to change their minds). But since the Ren's hardware does transmit MIDI data, its possible for a 3rd party to create their own app and use it as a controller.....like the company that did it with Maschine and Reason.

Side note - My name is not disrespectful. Just like all the Spanish kids whose parents named them 'Jesus' but pronounce it differently. Or all the millions of people in the world named after the Muslim Prophet.

Look I'm gonna state the obvious. The guy asked about MIDI Out in AU. I answered him. You asked which post was more accurate. I told you and provided some background as to why.

And no I'm not going to submit feature requests for a unit I have no intention of buying. But if someone asks a direct question about a plugin standard I'm going to give them the answer.

So don't bother trying to spin this into whatever it is you're trying.

Jesus, I answer an AU SDK question directly and it ends in you blabbering about how I need to submit feature requests.

"But since the Ren's hardware does transmit MIDI data, its possible for a 3rd party to create their own app and use it as a controller.....like the company that did it with Maschine and Reason."

I don't even know what the **** you're talking there. Maschine needs no third party app to do anything discussed here. When it wouldn't host VST, we used to use MIDI routing app workarounds but that was over 3 years ago. And Reason 7 has MIDI Out now standard.

No third party created an app to enable MIDI out in Reason or Maschine. There are simply freeware apps that route MIDI. If that's what you meant, learn to write better sentences, because that's not how your sentence reads. Unless you mean companies like Twisted Tools that have Maschine as a control surface for their apps, but if you do mean something like that, it's a moot point as they use the Maschine Controller mode.

I responded to this thread to help out some individuals having trouble with the Ren sending MIDI Out inside their DAW. This is something that I do all the time. Since this issue spans several threads, I am here to assist.

During the course of the conversation, you clearly mentioned "MIDI headaches". So I sought clarification on the "MIDI headaches" you are having and not about a feature request. I wasn't trying to debate anything....Only to find a remedy for your "MIDI headaches"....

Several forum members requested Akai to code a Ren controller app like the one Maschine has (Maschine Controller..hello). Akai said months ago they have no plans to create one but its possible for a 3rd party to create one. I just pointed this out and mentioned 3rd party support for Maschine to control Reason. MaschineR (http://www.retouchcontrol.com/site_page.aspx?pageid=45) is a perfect example of what I am talking about.

I see no reason for you to get emotional on this subject.

Accuse other posters of being "emotional" yet another cornball of the century tactic.

Look if you can't grasp the obvious that "MIDI headaches" was a general phrase used as an umbrella phrasing regarding all these threads then you just can't read. But of course you can, and you knew what I meant fully.

Look you're still missing the point invoking ReTouch's MaschineR as a model that could be applied to the Ren. It only works because the mappable controller mode exists in Maschine in the first place. That is what they are selling you, a Maschine Controller Mode template and a Reason script that it will recognize. A freeware MIDI routing app takes the place of the IAC when using it on Windows.

So how is a similar app going to work for the Ren if you have no way to map or save MIDI CC arrangements? It won't without that function available.

Look it's clear you probably do want a mappable controller editor app. But your gods said no so you're clutching at straws as far a potential 3rd party solution. Which I just clearly described why that won't solve it.

It was asked if AU sends MIDI Out. I linked an example of what the issues are. I have 150 AU plugins. Like 5 of them send MIDI Out. I have 147 VST's out of the same group of 150 AU's on OS X. All 147 send MIDI Out.

So I've answered the one question 3 times now, and nipped a new myth of yours in the bud.(This third party will figure it out potentially thing). The damn thing dragging on so long because you wanna jump on two words in a general sentence.

I come here for discussions with actual and potential Ren users. Whether I use the words 'Emotional' or some other word or phrase, you have clearly blown up for no good reason.

If you are using the phrase 'MIDI headaches" as an 'umbrella' and can't name a specific issue you are concerned with....then I will just address the issue at hand. And no....I don't know what you mean which is why I asked.

To imply I am missing the point is more the case of you not actually reading. It was noted several times Akai enabled the Ren to be used as an audio interface and send MIDI commands without using the MPC software. It has also been noted that they will not create an application to use it as a controller for other applications...good idea or otherwise. But a 3rd party can create an Ren/Studio controller app to enable its use as a generic controller. In fact, depending on the music software app...you can already use it as a generic controller as every button, Qlink, and pads send distinct MIDI messages when touched, pressed, or struck.

Let me slow this down so you can comprehend what I am saying. Maschine needs its controller map app in order to be used as a controller. Without this app, Maschine doesn't transmit any MIDI data when its software is closed. Strike any pad, push any button, or turn any knob and nothing happens. The Ren doesn't need an app. As I pointed above, it sends MIDI without the need for any app. Now a 3rd party company CAN create a controller app for the Ren and/or possibly do something along the lines as ReTouch's Maschine R. The point is....Akai said they won't do it but the designed the Ren so its possible that someone else can.

Hopefully this is clear to you now but I won't hold my breath.

For the last time. I answered the AU question. You made me do it twice, I did.

I mentioned a controller mode would be the best solution. End of story. I don't need to name specific issues if on any given day there's 4-10 about this MIDI stuff.

As usual you're essentially arguing in circles with yourself. Yes Ren has no separate MIDI mode, hence all the people having struggles.

AU answer.
Controller mode just makes that business easier to manage.

That's all that was said and you know it.

And as it's been said before if you're going to charge $1300 for a MIDI controller+software and make it harder for people to control other stuff over MIDI in their session than a hardware MPC or a $100 MIDI controller, it's basically a middle finger to the buyers.

So typical of you to bust out post after post based on two random words that were tangential to my actual post.

Metatron72 wrote:For the last time. I answered the AU question. You made me do it twice, I did.

I mentioned a controller mode would be the best solution. End of story. I don't need to name specific issues if on any given day there's 4-10 about this MIDI stuff.

As usual you're essentially arguing in circles with yourself. Yes Ren has no separate MIDI mode, hence all the people having struggles.

AU answer.
Controller mode just makes that business easier to manage.

That's all that was said and you know it.

And as it's been said before if you're going to charge $1300 for a MIDI controller+software and make it harder for people to control other stuff over MIDI in their session than a hardware MPC or a $100 MIDI controller, it's basically a middle finger to the buyers.

So typical of you to bust out post after post based on two random words that were tangential to my actual post.

Here fkin here mate!!!








And I repeat!

if you're going to charge $1300 for a MIDI controller+software and make it harder for people to control other stuff over MIDI in their session than a hardware MPC or a $100 MIDI controller, it's basically a middle finger to the buyers

No one asked any further clarification on the AU question once you responded. You repeated it multiple times to hide the fact you are not aware of the Ren's capabilities.

You keep talking controller mode when the Ren doesn't need one to control other software unlike Maschine. Ren users are having issues in this regard, I can walk them step by step through it...would rather do that then keep going round-round explaining basic stuff to you. Having a controller app will only allow you to change the MIDI messages the Ren is already transmitting. In a session, the Ren plugin can control any MIDI device that your DAW can route to. The Ren in standalone mode can control any MIDI module connected to it or your computer.

If there are 4-10 MIDI stuff and you can't name a single one to discuss...