Share your knowledge on these two classic MPCs
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By Beatdiggerjazzcat Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:58 am
ZWUKOLOW wrote:
Clint wrote:Ask Jazzcat, they are his pics after all. He sent them privately to my phone.

Yes he sent it to you because by his words the lack of a pc at his house makes upload quite hard. I don't know how I will get the pics from him if I'm not in the UK so he isn't going to send them to my phone in the first place. This is why I asked to upload them so all of us can compare not only you.

Just find it strange that you was the first one asking the public for the pictures but when you got them from someone (Matt) you are behaving like a kid - those are not mine, ask Jazzcat, he sent them privately to my phone etc. Never mind, I don't give a **** anymore.



Chill out man :)

Just send me an email
[email protected]
By MPCHunter Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:48 pm
ZX81 wrote:MPCHunter: Does that comment also apply to the one micb posted?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-to-AC- ... 4d0a594a6d

If so, what capacitors would I need, and where do I put them?


Without seeing the circuit design of any of the inverters, it is hard to say if it needs them or not. Adding them would not hurt anything, if you are not hearing noise bleed then you don't need to worry about it.

You would put the decoupling capacitors at the DC input of the inverter between 5V and Ground.

Typically 0.1uF capacitors are used as decoupling, however you may get added/different benefits by using 0.01uF or 0.001uF.

Ceramic capacitors are the cheapest to use, though different filtering benefits can be achieved using electrolytic or tantalum instead or in addition. You will have to play around and see. I don't have the inverters here to experiment with.
By ZX81 Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:01 pm
MPCHunter: Thanks for your thorough answer! :-D

I haven't received my inverter yet, but I've got the backlight, and will install it tonight using the old whiny inverter. I can post pictures of the light intensity differences when I receive my new inverter also.
By Clint Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:36 am
micb wrote:The one which we actually should be using is this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-to-AC- ... 4d0a594a6d

This at 5v is alot closer to the original output voltage. This at 6v gives out 77v, which is alot lower than 240v. It is a little bit bigger, but is alot closer when compared to the original spec.
.


Are you or anyone else using this model able to measure what this inverter is putting out from the MPC at 5V? Are we looking at 60-65V AC or thereabouts?? That would tie in with the slightly less bright display compared to the original inverter.

Also this lower voltage model, has no USB like the other one?

How do you know which wires to connect to the invertors red and black from the MPC 5V power supply, or do you need tools to determine this?

Anyone??
By ZX81 Thu May 02, 2013 7:06 pm
Today I installed the inverter that micb recommends, and I'm happy with the result. The screen is not as bright as with the original inverter, but the difference is not that big.

I tried to measure the output voltage with a multimeter, but unfortunately couldn't get it to work even though I switched it to AC voltage...

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I started with cutting off the connector from the power supply which supplies 5V DC to the inverter, and peeling the cable. The minus side of that cable is marked with pink bars.

The red and black cable on the inverter is the input. Hence, the white conductor with pink bars is connected to the black conductor of the inverter, and the all white conductor is connected to the red conductor of the inverter.

Image

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The output from the inverter, a black two conductor cable, is then connected to the two conductors of the brown cable (the cable going to the backlight). It doesn't matter which conductor is connected to which, since the output from the inverter is AC.

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I shielded the cables with electrical tape and used heat shrink tubing.

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I then attached the new inverter next to the original inverter using velcro sticky back.

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At last an MPC with working backlight without that **** head crushing noise. The new inverter is totally silent! The new backlight still emits a little high pitched noise though, but it's not in the same ballpark as the inverter. :)
By ZX81 Thu May 02, 2013 7:42 pm
And a crappy cell phone picture of the result. To the right is the Mutable Instruments Shruthi synthesizer which has a very bright LCD.

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By MisterWhite Fri May 03, 2013 8:04 pm
Hi folks,

I would like to add a couple of things about inverters and backlights, but first, to repeat MPCHunter - it is essential to have a decoupling capacitor in the circuit. Without that capacitor, you will introduce that noise right back into the MPC's power supply. From there it can and does leak into the audio. Personally I haven't tried to run an inverter without the decoupling cap in an MPC60 but I have tried it on other Akai samplers, with varying unpleasant noisy results. So please take the advice of MPCHunter.

Voltage
It is not usually a good idea to power an EL backlight with 233 volts. Please don't use an inverter with this sort of output, it is a little high. It does depend on a couple of other things but 233V is generally too high.

I have done extensive testing at varying voltages on EL panels, and above approximately 210V, the insulating material inside the panel can break down. It is very rare but it seems to begin around 210V. Microscopic flaws in this material at, say, 150V, will not usually cause a problem, and if they ever did, part of the backlight would simply 'go out' and that would be the extent of the problem. But at 233V, the breakdown is much more violent, a burn-hole or even a burn-line can appear which can melt through the protective layers of insulation on the backlight - this will not be good for your display.

(I test my EL material at high voltages with powerful inverters, to weed out any flaws. But I can't guarantee continued safe operation above 200V)

Voltage drop
Inverters' voltages will drop when you connect a backlight. The MPC60 inverter, which is approx 200V without a load, can drop to 100-120V or less with a backlight connected, this is normal.

Bigger inverters are designed for bigger EL panels. But this isn't always a good thing. Especially to be avoided are those very large inverters like the one in the last photo - *IF that inverter has a high voltage, say 150V or more*. This is because large inverters like that are designed to power huge panels, so their voltage does not fall when you connect an MPC60-size backlight. The backlight is operating at this high voltage all of its life.

Brightness and voltage
The higher the voltage when the backlight is connected, the brighter the backlight will be. But the backlight will have a shorter usable lifetime.

Frequency and brightness
EL backlights operate on AC currents of certain frequency. 400-800Hz is the usual operating frequency of most backlights. Higher frequency means more brightness. But again, there is a tradeoff, the usable lifetime is shorter at higher frequencies.

Very roughly, the best balance of brightness and lifetime for this type of EL backlight to be working at is around 90-120V, 400-600Hz.

Some inverters have extremely high frequencies of 2000Hz and more. Avoid them, they will shorten the usable lifetime.

If you fit an inverter and find that the backlight lights up your room and leaves a burn on your retina, it is going to have a shorter lifespan than is normal.

Be safe:
Please don't fit one of my backlights directly to an inverter that you are not sure about. If the inverter circuit is properly designed and tested, and outputs the correct power to the backlight, has the decoupling cap and short circuit protection, is mounted properly in your MPC, everything should be fine. I believe our own Jazzcat was looking into having his own inverter circuits produced, that are properly designed for the MPC60/60II.

If the backlight becomes a smouldering blob of molten plastic you may void your warranty :)

Akai might not honour their warranty either :)

Matt
Last edited by MisterWhite on Sat May 04, 2013 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Clint Sat May 04, 2013 11:27 am
I couldn't have explained it any better myself lol.

"Use this at your own risk" appears to be the underlying message here.
By micb Thu May 09, 2013 5:12 pm
MisterWhite wrote:Hi folks,

I would like to add a couple of things about inverters and backlights, but first, to repeat MPCHunter - it is essential to have a decoupling capacitor in the circuit. Without that capacitor, you will introduce that noise right back into the MPC's power supply. From there it can and does leak into the audio. Personally I haven't tried to run an inverter without the decoupling cap in an MPC60 but I have tried it on other Akai samplers, with varying unpleasant noisy results. So please take the advice of MPCHunter.

Voltage
Matt


This is not an issue, have already tested this and no audible noise was being leaked back through the outputs.
By Clint Thu May 09, 2013 10:03 pm
Time will tell.

You cant guarantee anything until the part has been properly field tested over a significant length of time. Best we can say at this point is that there have been no reported issues of noise leaking through to the audio outputs, so far at least. Which is a welcome sign.

Please note the invertor that we are now referring to does not have a USB plug. That version is not being recommended due to having excessively high AC output voltage.