Vintage Mode Marketing Discussion continues....

AnSolas wrote:

Danny wrote:if don't like sell it. simple as !! god knows there plenty of other stuff out there to
use, it's all getting a bit tiresome.
a forum member used some lateral thinking and instead saying thanks you've managed
to turn into another nonsense thread going nowhere but up it's own backside

well done congratulations

totally agree

Funny , instead of being happy now to be able to use the Vintage modes on multiple tracks people start to complain that they are software models.

peace

I agree with you - but at the same time I just see it as a bigger picture type of thing. Remember I'm only even commenting because I use the Ren a lot and LIKE it and see its potential... A little more transparency would do them good. I'm not being emotional or arguing just to argue. This whole situation is just funny to me - its so blatant and so simple, and only increases the power of the Ren, yet they somehow decide its a better idea to keep as master track only. It's a bigger picture thing, a d doesn't effect my workflow much - it just says something about the company.

Danny you say if you don't like it sell it.. After investing a grand into a piece of equipment and using it many many hours a week, how much am I gonna get back ?

Once again , the reason I even bother commenting is because I like the equipment and I see its potential.. But this simple fact remains.......... while its the most expensive piece of gear I have (maschine, reason, reaper, midi controllers) it's also currently the least capable and most frustrating....... I like the mpc workflow , and have fun with the ren.. So remember this isn't an emotion filled post - just some feedback from someone who has been making beats for almost 10 years, music for 18 years and wants the Ren to be all it could be !

labcoats wrote:Akai were rumbled even before the release. They didnt admit it was software based until the pressure from the public. There is also a thread here from many months ago from a German dude who proved it was entirely plug in based.

Pressure from public? That is ridiculous. Did you see the date of the video I posted? That was Namm 2012 when the 'public' (to you that means forum members), were seeing the Ren for the first time and really didn't even know much of anything about the Ren. And only a prototype were displayed.

And the nameless German dude? Dan addressed that misinformation at Namm 2013.

JAH wrote: Dan addressed that misinformation at Namm 2013.

what misinformation

es-k wrote:well JAH, i guess its just some tricky wording.....

but here's the box.. def misleading

What is the story with the MPC3000 hardware, did someone look at the circuit and find that was not true as well?

The early marketing and discussion did lead people to think that the vintage mode was hardware based.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

es-k wrote:well JAH, i guess its just some tricky wording.....

but here's the box.. def misleading

What is the story with the MPC3000 hardware, did someone look at the circuit and find that was not true as well?

The early marketing and discussion did lead people to think that the vintage mode was hardware based.

There was a guy some time ago comin in this forum, he stated he was some kind of electronic expert/engineer.

He said if you look at the elctric sheet/diagram of REN's electrical part there is something betwen the ad/da converters which has the role of converting the input/output signal like the mpc 3000. (so give it that characteristic eq/comp)

Once he opened the REN he could not find it, the circuitry/electrical part was missing...

Now i personally dont know if it is true or not, but after today im quite sure the REN ad/da stage is not involved at all for the vintage emulation.

Just testing the mpc software on some beats and using the vintage emulation as plug-ins, give the same exatc result if i use REN's soundcard or my fireface 400.

IMHO Even with my fireface the emulation is more convincing because the sound is more detailed/3dimensional.

Dont forget that REN's converter are pretty decent, they are clean but thier still remain average ad/da converters.


Now considering all the above and the fact that seems you can use the vintage emulation as plug-ins, i consider the Mpc Studio a much better deal.

To me seems just Akai lie to us, and the REN controller is just a commercial move for milking us.

I mean why they put a soundcard if it has no role at all?

the could just make the REN as it is without a cheap soundcard inside, and make us pay 700$ instead of 1300$.


Just make us pay more than twice of the price for an average m-audio soundcard.



The price of REN internal soundcard is worth 200$ maximum.

JAH wrote:

andreat668 wrote:i dont want open another flame but this shows which kind of corporation is akai...guys they just fool us for the thousand time.

at the beginning they told us the emulation was hw and not software, and of course is not!

Now we discover they crippled the software without no reason, even the sp1200ring plug in emulation is just a copy of other stock plug-in.

Probably if put a stock eq and comp on the master with certain settings here we have the mpc 60 emulation...

NAMM 2012, Dan showed off the MPC Ren prototype and explained what the "MPC Sound/Vintage Mode". I won't paraphrase what he said, but you can watch it for yourself:

He clearly stated what they did with the hardware and also clearly said the emulations were software.

oh the irony, jah... you too were amongst those claiming that the vintage mode was combined with hardware... you said it multiple times too... here's just one case of you contradicting yourself by claiming that vintage mode is both software/hardware in case you've already forgot...

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=164469&p=1556312&hilit=vintage+hardware#p1556312

SimonInAustralia wrote:What is the story with the MPC3000 hardware, did someone look at the circuit and find that was not true as well?

The early marketing and discussion did lead people to think that the vintage mode was hardware based.

Heres the thread Simon.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=160780&hilit=vintage+mode

crossings wrote:oh the irony, jah... you too were amongst those claiming that the vintage mode was combined with hardware... you said it multiple times too... here's just one case of you contradicting yourself by claiming that vintage mode is both software/hardware in case you've already forgot...

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=164469&p=1556312&hilit=vintage+hardware#p1556312

More propaganda and lies. This thread you posted reveals just that. I did not claim anything. I simply referenced the 2012 Namm Interview which Dan (Akai Project Manager) discussed the Ren's hardware and software in detail in a 13 minute long video here:


Dan specifically stated:
1. "It's definitely a big part of it" in relations to the MPC Rens hardware contributes to the sound

2. MPC Ren has the same circuitry of the MPC 3000

3. Turning up the record gain gives you that 'MPC oomph'

4. The Vintage Mode is "software emulation"

How can anyone get confused with this explanation.....


And now...folks want to complain about how the emulations were created (software models..stock plugins or otherwise)? The same folks that don't even know what an MPC 60, MPC 3000, or SP1200 sounds like? IF stock plugins were used to create a vintage sound that is exactly or close to the originals....that is some damn good stock plugins. I can't recall a single thread where anyone claims that the Ren doesn't sound like the drum machines it is emulating...

Not to derail, but if you have only the Studio how do you get the Vintage mode plugs?

Jah is right. Anybody that didn't understand the software/hardware thing from the beginning were simply not paying close enough attention. The information was there all along.

The so called analogue circuitry of the 3000 is the hardware "vintage mode" so to speak. And the actual vintage mode, which is totally separate and has nothing to do with the other is software. I understood this from the start, so no excuses for others not picking up on it.

andreat668 wrote: they just fool us for the thousand time.

speak for yourself.

akai's reputation will. and does.

JAH wrote:
And now...folks want to complain about how the emulations were created (software models..stock plugins or otherwise)? The same folks that don't even know what an MPC 60, MPC 3000, or SP1200 sounds like? IF stock plugins were used to create a vintage sound that is exactly or close to the originals....that is some damn good stock plugins. I can't recall a single thread where anyone claims that the Ren doesn't sound like the drum machines it is emulating...

.....the Vintage Mode sounds so good, forum members are demanding this sound for the Studio and they want a more flexible approach to using it in the Ren...such as different Vintage Modes on different pads. This is the reason for this thread in the first place.

So marketing or no marketing....Obviously actual Ren users are loving this sound.

Just a quick one - this topic is not about the quality of the plug ins - that can be discussed in a separate topic (I believe some already exist).

This topic is specifically for people to discuss their feelings regarding the marketing and business decisions behind 'Vintage Mode'.

JAH wrote:

crossings wrote:claiming that vintage mode is both software/hardware in case you've already forgot...

2012 Namm Interview which Dan (Akai Project Manager) discussed the Ren's hardware and software in detail in a 13 minute long video here:

Dan specifically stated:
1. "It's definitely a big part of it" in relations to the MPC Rens hardware contributes to the sound

I would say that their implementation of vintage mode is technically both hardware/software, and the hardware is a big part of the sound...you press the hardware button, and it inserts the software plugin.

It does say on the side of the box, it has the same MPC3000 analog circuits, so possibly not the A/D-D/A converters, maybe something before or after, the op-amp record gain and output volume circuits or something.

JAH wrote:I can't recall a single thread where anyone claims that the Ren doesn't sound like the drum machines it is emulating...

I have not noticed a thread where anyone does a detailed side by side comparison of the sound of the Renaissance and the drum machines it is emulating.

JAH wrote:.....the Vintage Mode sounds so good, forum members are demanding this sound for the Studio and they want a more flexible approach to using it in the Ren...such as different Vintage Modes on different pads. This is the reason for this thread in the first place.

So marketing or no marketing....Obviously actual Ren users are loving this sound.

I see people wanting it because it is an option, not necessarily due to the quality of the sound.