Vintage Mode Marketing Discussion continues....

I also remeber a guy called Andy who works for akai, he was also talking about the ren had mpc 3000 punchy outputs...

'Vintage Mode' has been sketchy from day one. I and others were under the impression that it was part hardware, part software. They have consistently stuck to that script from the outset. It's up to them to prove that there is a hardware element to it, especially after it was previously debunked with schematics and basic electronics knowledge.

I suppose the way they have gimped the software is just another embarrassing development in a long line with Nukai. The fact that they've created the 'ring mode' (and probably the other modes) from stock effects is toe curling. It demonstrates a complete lack of attention to detail to the whole product, and yet another example of how they have deceived customers.

Now might be time for a more detailed vintage mode test between the Ren and Studio now that the Studio has been unshackled.

Well, in all fairness, the Vintage Mode was spoken as a software emulation. It was said that they took the 3000's circuitry and implemented it to the software. The hardware circuitry issue came when Dan said the Vintage Mode will only be available through the Ren's Main Outs making everyone think that they reissued the 3000's converters into the Ren.

Thats the real story of how all this shit got wacked out of proportion.

The whole thing was spun as a part hardware recreation and software emulation. The MPC3000 output circuitry was mentioned in every video.

Was the reason the Studio didn't have the Vintage Mode attributed to it not having the Ren's output circuitry, or was it just gimped so people bought the Ren?

Regardless of wether or not the Rens outputs effect vintage mode, you do not have to be using your hardware outs to hear a difference - it's obvious that there is no reason the studio shouldn't come stocked with these plugins.

Embarrassing for Akai, if you ask me !

Coz wrote:The whole thing was spun as a part hardware recreation and software emulation. The MPC3000 output circuitry was mentioned in every video.

Was the reason the Studio didn't have the Vintage Mode attributed to it not having the Ren's output circuitry, or was it just gimped so people bought the Ren?

Definitely makes their whole marketing campaign really shady.

Hermit_Crab wrote:Jah is right. Anybody that didn't understand the software/hardware thing from the beginning were simply not paying close enough attention. The information was there all along.

The so called analogue circuitry of the 3000 is the hardware "vintage mode" so to speak. And the actual vintage mode, which is totally separate and has nothing to do with the other is software. I understood this from the start, so no excuses for others not picking up on it.

PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED

the majority of us all claimed that the vintage emulation was strictly software from the beginning and people like jah and other employees denied it to the death claiming that it was the hardware outputs of the ren that gave it a certain sound as well... that it used mpc3000 outputs etc... my point is that THE FORUM was claiming that emulation was software only while the akai marketing team was trying to convince everyone otherwise... now we all find out it's 100% software [as we'd always suspected] and the akai fools are claiming they never said what they did... GTFOOHWTBS. if you were really paying attention you'd know exactly what the rest of us are talking about... but you're too busy defending jah.

Even if it wasn't explicitly stated that the emulation was tied to the Ren's hardware, which it was, it was at the very least, implicitly inferred. 1. You need the Ren (hardware) to run the emulation. 2. The emulation was only available through the outputs of the Ren (hardware). 3. The mention of the 3000 circuitry (which doesn't exist in the Ren) was also implicitly tied to some sort of emulation. 4. If you bought the Studio (hardware) you couldn't run the emulations because you didn't have the Ren (hardware). None of this, at the end of the day, is true as you don't need the Ren at all to run the emulation. Also, the emulation appears to be nothing more than tweaks to settings of stock plugins which could probably be easily reproducible on other plugins not made by Akai. Which, in and of itself is pretty terrible because it shows that there really wasn't much R&D put into actually capturing a good emulation of the 60/3000 sound. And with that being said, you probably own these "emulations" already via some other plugin with a different name. If not, you could probably download one for free.

Now, what I'd like to know is, since the emulations are nothing more than VST presets tied to basic VSTs, can you run them in any VST host, like I don't know....Maschine?

I'd also like to point out that if you really want the MPC 60/3000 sound, buy an MPC 60/3000. It's that simple.

Crossings & Jah - no personal attacks please - posts deleted.

No need for people to get personal - this topic is for discussing the Vintage Mode issue, not for airing out grievances with each other.

This situation is like an iOS jailbreak for the Ren!

Where do they go from here though? Do they patch it up or do the right thing and code it into the software without needing hacks? They could claim it was coming in 1.4 all along... that might wipe a little bit of egg from their face.

The Studio situation will be interesting because they've already made a marketing decision to leave Vintage Mode out of it.

Would it be shaky ground for a Ren user to upload the Vintage Mode elements for Studio users?

MaZe wrote:Now, what I'd like to know is, since the emulations are nothing more than VST presets tied to basic VSTs, can you run them in any VST host, like I don't know....Maschine?

Yesterday i tried to open up them im Ableton Live, but they dont appear in my vst folder.

The majority of us on the forum smelled a fishy tale from the start. I said my self that unless the Ren has the exact same hardware/convertor components it cant be the same as the 3000. nAkai were shady on the subject from the offset. Their marketing dept is the reason - not the reps who I feel a bit sorry for. You can see their uncomfortable with the subject on their faces. I like the emulation - but that's not the point. The point is nAkais marketing which essentially assumes all users are stupid.

labcoats wrote:Their marketing dept is the reason - not the reps who I feel a bit sorry for.

I think the marketing department carries more weight than the reps and coders. They're just left to run with the BS that's handed to them.

labcoats wrote:The majority of us on the forum smelled a fishy tale from the start. I said my self that unless the Ren has the exact same hardware/convertor components it cant be the same as the 3000. nAkai were shady on the subject from the offset. Their marketing dept is the reason - not the reps who I feel a bit sorry for. You can see their uncomfortable with the subject on their faces. I like the emulation - but that's not the point. The point is nAkais marketing which essentially assumes all users are stupid.

Well reading through these threads and having witnessed it all as it unfolded it's no surprise I can only count two people on here that don't see the initial presentation and marketing of the feature as duplicitous at worst and misleading at best.

I shouldn't be surprised they would treat customers as if they are stupid when their own tech support told a forum member here that they would have to get back to him on ASIO on OS X...

Had that been me on the phone with Rhode Island I think I would have had my phone break when I dropped it on the floor in utter disbelief...

labcoats wrote:The point is nAkais marketing which essentially assumes all users are stupid.

they are particularly painting hip-hop producers as stupid in order to sell to them. just look what happened at gearslutz. jah started with his usual sales shill crap in the hip-hop forum and as a result eventually everyone was sequestered out of being able to speak on the ren outside of the specified ren sticky (which he was booted from)

in the electronic music forum on gearslutz, definitely the larger forum of the two (with less 'stupid' hip-hop producers) there is exactly one thread about the ren which is about two years old and hasn't been responded to in months and only had a few posts, and jah dare never say a word over there about the ren because, you know, they're not dumb hip-hop producers over there and they squash that type of cold-shilling whenever it comes up

apparently he has been booted from other sub forums here as well so pretty much only posts in the ren section now, which apparently is predominantly stupid hip-hop producers lol (no shots)