Standard Track Mixer - Detached From Sequences.

SimonInAustralia wrote:
A sequence in the MPC Software is equal to a 128 track stacked MIDI region within a Pro Tools session.

This is not accurate at all. Since you obviously own Pro Tools and the Ren/Studio, post some videos/pics showing what you mean. Then I will happily point out where you are way off base.

You can't link the Track Mixer of two MPC Software Sequences because they have not provided a Master/Sequence/Program type option, like previous MPC mixers do, and that is what is being requested in this thread.

False. I own the MPC 2500, 3000, and 4000. These MPCs pretty much cover every aspect of MPC mixers. What you describe is false.

JAH wrote:

SimonInAustralia wrote:A sequence in the MPC Software is equal to a 128 track stacked MIDI region within a Pro Tools session.

This is not accurate at all. Since you obviously own Pro Tools and the Ren/Studio, post some videos/pics showing what you mean. Then I will happily point out where you are way off base.

You can't link the Track Mixer of two MPC Software Sequences because they have not provided a Master/Sequence/Program type option, like previous MPC mixers do, and that is what is being requested in this thread.

False. I own the MPC 2500, 3000, and 4000. These MPCs pretty much cover every aspect of MPC mixers. What you describe is false.

Dude, you are retarded, I have said it all already, multiple f'ing times, there is nothing more to add, re-read it and try to comprehend, STFU already.

You wrote a bunch of incorrect or misleading information. I am not sure you own these products.

Creating two MPCs sequences is not creating two 128 Stacked Regions in Pro Tools. MPC Sequences are completely independent of one another. The only thing they have in common is that they can share Programs/Program Mixer. Program Mixer is what you keep referring to as a Master Mixer. The Ren has that.

An MPC Project and one of it's Sequences is the same as a Pro Tools Session. The difference is that the MPC Project can hold multiple Sequences that can be completely independent music compositions or can be chained together. Pro Tools doesn't have this functionality.

JAH wrote:An MPC Project and one of it's Sequences is the same as a Pro Tools Session. The difference is that the MPC Project can hold multiple Sequences that can be completely independent music compositions or can be chained together. Pro Tools doesn't have this functionality.

No, that is your problem, it does have that functionality, you just can't comprehend it, and it leads to pages and pages of back and forth cr ap.

The Pro Tools Session CAN ALSO hold multiple sections that can be completely independent music compositions or can be chained together.


The difference is in how each sequencer allows you to playback/access/interact with the multiple sections.

The MPC Software allows you to play a single section, a sequence, at a time. This is the equivalent of highlighting a single section, out of the multiple sections, in the Pro Tools Edit Window and pressing play.

The MPC Software Song Mode is the equivalent of lining up the individual sections in the Pro Tools Edit window, in Shuffle Mode, so they play one after the other.

Pro Tools does not have an equivalent next sequence playback feature like the MPC Software does, it has linear playback on the timeline.

MORE - as to why we need this essential function.

The Rens sequences are directly attached to the track mixer. The model is based on the 20+ year old MPC60 midi mixer which was fine back then for a little midi volume change. But even then the feature was little used because every one used an external console and sent the sounds via the 60’s individual outs. Using multiple sequences was no problem because their mix wasn't changed. Basically the mix wasnt attached to sequences.

A 20+ year old very basic midi volume mixer design and concept is in no way fit for a 21st century MPC which can load VST’s. The Ren essentially gives you the ability to compose, arrange and mix your song entirely within the Ren or in the box as many call it. The BIG new addition/feature to this MPC is precisely its ability to allow you to mix the song with its Daw like features. No other MPC has had this ability - hence why the mixer needed to be detached from sequences.

Don’t forget the Ren is also a performance instrument. It can be a superb performance instrument regardless of genre. The Next seq function wasn’t designed for different songs, as some may claim. It was designed for variations within your song - hence the real time operation to try out different sequences on the fly. The Ren goes a step further allowing you to record those sequence changes using the pads creating a fully arranged song MARVELOUS! - but what a shame the mixer is attached directly to individual sequences.

Labcoats, once you have created your arrangement why dont you just convert to one sequence and then mix the song?

(Important) I do - but many producers compose, and mix at the same time. Its called making it sound like a record as you write it. This is much more common than I think people probably realise. Very few composers today sit and create music in a dry sterile environment. You want to hear how those drums through a compressor, you want to hear reverb on those chords, delay on that synth line etc - all as you write the song. And whilst you do that I will bet anything your tweaking parameters many many times to get the balance right as you compose. I'm assuming everyone reading this does this to some extent.

So, think about composers who compose using multiple sequences. Every tweak on any plugin means going to every sequence/track and manually repeating the process. Even composing like this cannot be done - never mind the mixing aspect. Effectively it makes multiple sequences almost entirely redundant, as well as the next seq function.

I understand the general lack of enthusiasm for this function is probably to most Hip Hop music makers on this forum working with one sequence. However, I am in no doubt you will at some point start investigating the use of multiple sequences - for it surely can open doors to your musical chops, especially if used with Next Seq function to create real time arrangements (go on try it). So whilst the function may not seem crucial to you now, I believe further down the line it will be - especially as the Ren is embellished with more Daw. It needs supporting or it wont happen.

The workaround that would work.
Sending all the Rens sounds to Daw input channels. However nowhere near enough outs.

JAH wrote:
And when I wrote no DAW can accomplish this, I am referring to the fact that DAWs (Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase) can't open up multiple Sequences that share the same Track Mixer.

Their called Regions/clips - whatever. In region in Cubase I can have an entire drum track + more. I can have hundreds of those regions with subtle changes.
You basically suggest the Rens 99 sequences are for different songs.
Ridiculous and you know it.

JAH wrote:Note - if you want all your sequences to have the same mixer settings...compile them in Song Mode. Then make sure Sequence 1 has the Mixer/Effect settings you desire. .

Read what I said above about composing as you mix. This is something shit loads of producers do. In fact I dont know anyone who doesn't work like this today. Now add in the composer who creates the song with multiple sequences - created as they write the song. Factor in the plugins they use to create the vibe as they write (ie making it sound like a record) and all the changes they make to those plugins during the writing process. Drums, Bass, Chords, add in a synth - oh that's changed the dynamics - I need to change eq, compressions settings. Two hours later - hmmm those drums arnt hitting enough - I need to change the EQ. Hmm, now the bass has lost impact etc etc. Its an ongoing and constantly evolving process.

You have no idea what it means to be a producer because you simply dont think like one.

I'm not trying to get involved with this ridiculous conversation but I want to add that I also mix while I compose and that it isn't really very good right now with the Ren and it's mess of a mixer. A standard mixer to route to or more/unlimited sub mixes aka "group channels" or "aux busses" in normal DAW terminology along with inserts would fix this problem.

my 2 cents, carry on

labcoats wrote:

JAH wrote:Note - if you want all your sequences to have the same mixer settings...compile them in Song Mode. Then make sure Sequence 1 has the Mixer/Effect settings you desire. .

Read what I said above about composing as you mix. This is something **** loads of producers do. In fact I dont know anyone who doesn't work like this today. Now add in the composer who creates the song with multiple sequences - created as they write the song. Factor in the plugins they use to create the vibe as they write (ie making it sound like a record) and all the changes they make to those plugins during the writing process. Drums, Bass, Chords, add in a synth - oh that's changed the dynamics - I need to change eq, compressions settings. Two hours later - hmmm those drums arnt hitting enough - I need to change the EQ. Hmm, now the bass has lost impact etc etc. Its an ongoing and constantly evolving process.

You have no idea what it means to be a producer because you simply dont think like one.

You use a method that you can't or have a difficult time trying to mix. I use a method that you can mix as you compose. Sounds like you are the one that doesn't think like a producer.

Oh...I am not a producer but a hobbyist. I made about $500 in the past 16 years making beatz/performing. If I was a 'real' producer, I would probably be doing something else right about now.....

If you don't duplicate sequences you can mix as you compose but duplicating sequences is one of the fast workflow things I like about the MPC-R so it's one or the other unfortunately

Being able to select across multiple tracks and duplicate in 1.4 helps to make the one sequence workflow better but still not as good as the duplicate sequence method

Airyck wrote:If you don't duplicate sequences you can mix as you compose but duplicating sequences is one of the fast workflow things I like about the MPC-R so it's one or the other unfortunately

Being able to select across multiple tracks and duplicate in 1.4 helps to make the one sequence workflow better but still not as good as the duplicate sequence method

Copying Bars is the same number of button presses as Copy Sequence.

So instead of Copy Sequence 1 made of an 8 bar loop to Sequence 2......simply copy Bars 1-8 and insert then at Bar 9 (or any other location). No mixer issues.

JAH wrote:

Airyck wrote:If you don't duplicate sequences you can mix as you compose but duplicating sequences is one of the fast workflow things I like about the MPC-R so it's one or the other unfortunately

Being able to select across multiple tracks and duplicate in 1.4 helps to make the one sequence workflow better but still not as good as the duplicate sequence method

Copying Bars is the same number of button presses as Copy Sequence.

So instead of Copy Sequence 1 made of an 8 bar loop to Sequence 2......simply copy Bars 1-8 and insert then at Bar 9 (or any other location). No mixer issues.

When working with sequences you are able to use Song mode to lay your ideas out. So I can decide to repeat a certain sequence as many times as I like before it moves on to the next sequence. Do you have any quick work around for extending sequences that are in the middle of the song, or quickly re-arranging sections of the song? Basically you'd have to shift everything from that point all the way to the end over to the right by the amount of bars you want to extend a section.

If there is a quick way to do that then I'm all ears.

Airyck wrote:When working with sequences you are able to use Song mode to lay your ideas out. So I can decide to repeat a certain sequence as many times as I like before it moves on to the next sequence. Do you have any quick work around for extending sequences that are in the middle of the song, or quickly re-arranging sections of the song? Basically you'd have to shift everything from that point all the way to the end over to the right by the amount of bars you want to extend a section.

If there is a quick way to do that then I'm all ears.

Extending sequences in the middle of the song is done by Insert Bars.
If you want to re-arrange sections, you can Copy Bars or Events. The Ren's Sequence Edit Mode is very simple to use....only a few button clicks. You don't have to manually shift anything unless you desire that.

Using multiple Sequences and Song Mode is still an option. But....do not use the Track Mixer until you want to do a final mix.

When you use MPC progams and plugin programs, their mixers maintain the same settings across sequences. Use these mixers to make a preliminary mix when composing....

I'm not closed off to the idea of working differently than I'd like. I'll explore it more and see what the ups and downs are for me. I'm still having the issue that there are no group channels (if only submixes had inserts) so I have to think about a way to be able to put FX on individual sounds while being able to apply FX on whole groups of sounds.

I've worked in a linear fashion for years with Cubase so I guess I'm used to that, I just hope it's still a fast workflow because thats what I wanted out of moving to an MPC

Thanks for the input, info, and ideas

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