Vintage Mode Marketing Discussion continues....

JAH wrote:It doesn't matter what Akai said, how they wrote it...everybody knows that visits this forum on a regular basis 'someone' will find something to hate, berate, or instigate (I use to emcee back in the day ) nonsense.

Everything Akai has advertised is in plain, easy to understand English. I think if you misunderstand what they wrote...chances are you have reason (valid or otherwise) for not wanting to see the obvious.

but IT DOES MATTER, captain save-akai... that's the point of this entire thread.

crossings wrote:

JAH wrote:It doesn't matter what Akai said, how they wrote it...everybody knows that visits this forum on a regular basis 'someone' will find something to hate, berate, or instigate (I use to emcee back in the day ) nonsense.

Everything Akai has advertised is in plain, easy to understand English. I think if you misunderstand what they wrote...chances are you have reason (valid or otherwise) for not wanting to see the obvious.

but IT DOES MATTER, captain save-akai... that's the point of this entire thread.

Actually...some of the comments expressed show that it doesn't matter. Did you watch that video? Are you confused by Dan's description? Those are rhetorical questions as the answers are obvious. You intentionally look for smoke in hopes to find a fire...which is all directly related to the purpose of the thread. Paranoia has guys looking at marketing trying to find some hidden agenda.

Have to say, I was initially under the impression that 'Vintage Mode' was a hardware/software combo. Why wouldn't you? It's a feature locked in to the MPC that has an audio interface with the 'mpc3000-modelled' circuitry. It's a very easy assumption to make.

As for NAMM videos clearing it up, well I guess it depends which one you watch. Try 2.56 on this one.



And this one, from 8.02 - he actually agrees that it's not an effect, it's hardware.

Akai Product Specialist wrote:'If we go into vintage mode, the outputs are the same circuitry as the 3000....it gives you that slight bit of dirt on your snares...no, no, it's not an effect (Saintjoe: 'so it's actual circuitry, you can switch those circuits?)... yeah, yeah, you can go down to the 12 bit version'.

Clearly he's equating Vintage Mode to the 3000 circuitry in the audio interface, he clearly states it's not dsp, not an effect, and then appears to be suggesting that you can 'switch circuitry' for the 12 bit 60 sound.

Look, I'm not saying Akai set out to confuse people, but it clearly was confusing, even their own Product Specialist isn't entirely sure what Vintage Mode is, because what he's describing in the video above is not what we know now and is definitely not what Dan Gill was saying at the same NAMM in a different interview.

Sorry, but when you have two product specialists at the same trade show, with one saying it's 'hardware, not software' and the other saying 'it's software, not hardware', that's the definition of confusing and it's no wonder some people came to the wrong conclusion.

Remember the akaiprompc web site just says 'Vintage Mode changes output sound character to MPC3000, MPC60 and more' - that on it's own doesn't clear it up either way.

Anyway, it's certainly clear now, so perhaps that aspect is now discussed to death.. I was going to add some more points for debate, but perhaps I should let it be before meltdown occurs.

just like the moon landing in an mpc universe

MPC-Tutor wrote:Have to say, I was initially under the impression that 'Vintage Mode' was a hardware/software combo. Why wouldn't you? It's a feature locked in to the MPC that has an audio interface with the 'mpc3000-modelled' circuitry. It's a very easy assumption to make.

As for NAMM videos clearing it up, well I guess it depends which one you watch. Try 2.56 on this one.

And this one, from 8.02 - he actually agrees that it's not an effect, it's hardware.

Akai Product Specialist wrote:'If we go into vintage mode, the outputs are the same circuitry as the 3000....it gives you that slight bit of dirt on your snares...no, no, it's not an effect (Saintjoe: 'so it's actual circuitry, you can switch those circuits?)... yeah, yeah, you can go down to the 12 bit version'.

Clearly he's equating Vintage Mode to the 3000 circuitry in the audio interface, he clearly states it's not dsp, not an effect, and then appears to be suggesting that you can 'switch circuitry' for the 12 bit 60 sound.

Look, I'm not saying Akai set out to confuse people, but it clearly was confusing, even their own Product Specialist isn't entirely sure what Vintage Mode is, because what he's describing in the video above is not what we know now and is definitely not what Dan Gill was saying at the same NAMM in a different interview.

Sorry, but when you have two product specialists at the same trade show, with one saying it's 'hardware, not software' and the other saying 'it's software, not hardware', that's the definition of confusing and it's no wonder some people came to the wrong conclusion.

Remember the akaiprompc web site just says 'Vintage Mode changes output sound character to MPC3000, MPC60 and more' - that on it's own doesn't clear it up either way.

Anyway, it's certainly clear now, so perhaps that aspect is now discussed to death.. I was going to add some more points for debate, but perhaps I should let it be before meltdown occurs.

ol' jah just got his socks stuffed in his mouth. great clear up there tut.

He clearly says the same circuitry as the original MPC 3000 and points @ 2.58

SimonInAustralia wrote:That is surprising, I would have expected some sort of IR/convolusion type effect...rather than just a bit reduction plugin.

i would not have thought convolution would be used - isn't the point of these circuits and a lot of the magic due to non-linearities that cannot be recreated by straight up convolution? as for just tuning a bitcrusher, can't say i would have expected that either, but since seeing the implementation of 'non destructive chop', the bar has been lowered to subterranean levels as far as i'm concerned.

from what i see, circuit modelling is not really widespread in the part of the consumer market that nukai inhabits (contrast to universal audio who do it on almost every recreation). my homeys that do this for a living, the ones who do the circuit modelling, are seriously next level as far as math goes. it is not for the faint of heart, and i think the lesson we've learned here is that you cannot put it past a company to re-package an effect preset as an end-all, be-all 'emulation'.

es-k wrote:to be fair - as far as we can honestly tell the SP12 ring mod is the only one thats like that.. the other 3 are not saved bitcrusher presets..

could you elaborate on this? is the 'ring' plugin the only one that opens a bitcrusher? what do the other plugins look like?

Danny wrote:just like the moon landing in an mpc universe

tapedeck wrote:could you elaborate on this? is the 'ring' plugin the only one that opens a bitcrusher? what do the other plugins look like?

If you assign the 4 emulations to pad inserts, double clicking the ring mode emulation brings up the Decimator plugin with the three settings options, albeit a much less pretty version with no graphics.

Clicking on the other 3 opens up a blank white pop up.

Also if you open the actual vst files in a text editor, the ring mode plugin contains the text 'decimator' a couple of times. I cannot see reference to any internal effects in the other three vsts.

tapedeck wrote:and a lot of the magic due to non-linearities that cannot be recreated by straight up convolution?

the ones who do the circuit modelling, are seriously next level as far as math goes.

The mathematics again here!!

BLA, BLA, BLA.....

( Come on tapedeck
!!! )

MPC-Tutor wrote:

tapedeck wrote:could you elaborate on this? is the 'ring' plugin the only one that opens a bitcrusher? what do the other plugins look like?

If you assign the 4 emulations to pad inserts, double clicking the ring mode emulation brings up the Decimator plugin with the three settings options, albeit a much less pretty version with no graphics.

Clicking on the other 3 opens up a blank white pop up.

Also if you open the actual vst files in a text editor, the ring mode plugin contains the text 'decimator' a couple of times. I cannot see reference to any internal effects in the other three vsts.

thank you.
so there still could be something else going on.
i'd love for a dev to chime in on this just because i'm curious (not asking for trade secrets).

sally, i can't explain it to you.

tapedeck wrote:sally, i can't explain it to you.

Thanks.

pk1 wrote:

MPC-Tutor wrote:Have to say, I was initially under the impression that 'Vintage Mode' was a hardware/software combo. Why wouldn't you? It's a feature locked in to the MPC that has an audio interface with the 'mpc3000-modelled' circuitry. It's a very easy assumption to make.

As for NAMM videos clearing it up, well I guess it depends which one you watch. Try 2.56 on this one.

And this one, from 8.02 - he actually agrees that it's not an effect, it's hardware.

Akai Product Specialist wrote:'If we go into vintage mode, the outputs are the same circuitry as the 3000....it gives you that slight bit of dirt on your snares...no, no, it's not an effect (Saintjoe: 'so it's actual circuitry, you can switch those circuits?)... yeah, yeah, you can go down to the 12 bit version'.

Clearly he's equating Vintage Mode to the 3000 circuitry in the audio interface, he clearly states it's not dsp, not an effect, and then appears to be suggesting that you can 'switch circuitry' for the 12 bit 60 sound.

Look, I'm not saying Akai set out to confuse people, but it clearly was confusing, even their own Product Specialist isn't entirely sure what Vintage Mode is, because what he's describing in the video above is not what we know now and is definitely not what Dan Gill was saying at the same NAMM in a different interview.

Sorry, but when you have two product specialists at the same trade show, with one saying it's 'hardware, not software' and the other saying 'it's software, not hardware', that's the definition of confusing and it's no wonder some people came to the wrong conclusion.

Remember the akaiprompc web site just says 'Vintage Mode changes output sound character to MPC3000, MPC60 and more' - that on it's own doesn't clear it up either way.

Anyway, it's certainly clear now, so perhaps that aspect is now discussed to death.. I was going to add some more points for debate, but perhaps I should let it be before meltdown occurs.

ol' jah just got his socks stuffed in his mouth. great clear up there tut.

So Jah.?
What now.?



peace

mcroepster wrote::mrgreen:

So Jah.?
What now.?



peace

This...

JAH wrote:Dan is the product manager of the Ren. He clearly explains what the Ren does. What is written on the box does not contradict anything he said in the video I posted which is among the first interviews he did at Namm 2012.

Please post the video where Dan said the emulation was just hardware. He never said that. It was never presented that way during alpha/beta testing. Now if a product specialist made an error (and I have spotted several errors in the videos as I know the software as well as anyone) that wasn't done to mislead anyone.
Again...in case you missed it because you are overwhelmed with emotions.....Dan sets the record straight when he demo'd the prototype 8 months before the Ren was available in stores. And he even addressed it at Namm 2013.

MPC-Tutor wrote:Have to say, I was initially under the impression that 'Vintage Mode' was a hardware/software combo. Why wouldn't you? It's a feature locked in to the MPC that has an audio interface with the 'mpc3000-modelled' circuitry. It's a very easy assumption to make.

As for NAMM videos clearing it up, well I guess it depends which one you watch. Try 2.56 on this one.

That is what I was pointing out earlier when I stated there were product specialist(s) stating incorrect information...which Dan quickly cleared up. Everyone here has seen Dan's video multiple times over the past year...and still confused...