MPC seqencing tips

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MPC seqencing tips

By TopdaT Wed May 08, 2013 3:00 am
So I just want to start by saying that I am a complete rookie to the MPC, I have been pretty much using Cakewalk Sonar exclusively for my entire beat making life which is about 10 years. So I recently picked up the MPC Renaissance having heard so much about MPC's throughout the entire time I have made beats and wanting to try something new. I have to say I am enjoying working on it for the most part so far.
One thing that is really awkward for me is the way you sequence your beat or song.
To me it seems it would be easier and more efficient if when you were laying out you song if it was more like a traditional DAW sequencer. Can anyone help me with some good sequencing tips? Can anyone recommend some good videos that have some good sequencing tips? I have seen all the videos on the Akai web page. Thanks everyone!
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By Lampdog Wed May 08, 2013 3:07 am
TopdaT wrote:One thing that is really awkward for me is the way you sequence your beat or song. To me it seems it would be easier and more efficient if when you were laying out you song if it was more like a traditional DAW sequencer.

I am the exact opposite, I've never liked the "daw" way of laying out a song on the whole timeline like that.

Create a seq, copy it, make changes to each copy, connect/chain all the seqs in song mode is how older mpc's did it.
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By grinchmob Wed May 08, 2013 3:30 am
Lampdog wrote:
TopdaT wrote:One thing that is really awkward for me is the way you sequence your beat or song. To me it seems it would be easier and more efficient if when you were laying out you song if it was more like a traditional DAW sequencer.

I am the exact opposite, I've never liked the "daw" way of laying out a song on the whole timeline like that.

Create a seq, copy it, make changes to each copy, connect/chain all the seqs in song mode is how older mpc's did it.

:nod:
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By JAH Wed May 08, 2013 4:22 am
TopdaT wrote:One thing that is really awkward for me is the way you sequence your beat or song.
To me it seems it would be easier and more efficient if when you were laying out you song if it was more like a traditional DAW sequencer.

The Ren (and any MPC) does record in the traditional DAW sequencer way. You do not have to record multiple sequences and string them together in Song Mode just to convert them back into a single sequence. A lot of forum members before the latter but I am not one of them.

You can do what I do and record using a single sequence out the gate. Create the number of tracks you want to use by assigning different instruments (MPC, Keygroup, MIDI). Set the number of bars of your composition (you can change this anytime you like). Set the Loop to the range you want such as Bar 1-8 (or simply don't use it at all). Then record. Set the Loop to Bar 9-16...then record another pattern.

Linear recording (like a DAW) in the MPC Ren is easy to do and maintains your Track mixer/effects settings.
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By DJ Hellfire Wed May 08, 2013 5:33 am
TopdaT wrote:One thing that is really awkward for me is the way you sequence your beat or song.
To me it seems it would be easier and more efficient if when you were laying out you song if it was more like a traditional DAW sequencer. Can anyone help me with some good sequencing tips?



You can. Simply change your sequence bar amount from 2 to 96 or 104, or however many bars you normally make your beats. Then use the loop markers on the timeline to work on the section you want to work on or loop!

Re: MPC seqencing tips

By TopdaT Wed May 08, 2013 6:39 am
JAH wrote:You can do what I do and record using a single sequence out the gate. Create the number of tracks you want to use by assigning different instruments (MPC, Keygroup, MIDI). Set the number of bars of your composition (you can change this anytime you like). Set the Loop to the range you want such as Bar 1-8 (or simply don't use it at all). Then record. Set the Loop to Bar 9-16...then record another pattern.

Linear recording (like a DAW) in the MPC Ren is easy to do and maintains your Track mixer/effects settings.


This is exactly what I am looking for! I wonder how long it would have taken me to figure that out if I didn't ask... Im guessing :hmmm:
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By JAH Wed May 08, 2013 10:08 am
TopdaT wrote:
JAH wrote:You can do what I do and record using a single sequence out the gate. Create the number of tracks you want to use by assigning different instruments (MPC, Keygroup, MIDI). Set the number of bars of your composition (you can change this anytime you like). Set the Loop to the range you want such as Bar 1-8 (or simply don't use it at all). Then record. Set the Loop to Bar 9-16...then record another pattern.

Linear recording (like a DAW) in the MPC Ren is easy to do and maintains your Track mixer/effects settings.


This is exactly what I am looking for! I wonder how long it would have taken me to figure that out if I didn't ask... Im guessing :hmmm:


You would have figured it out in no time.

But I am hoping Akai invests more time in Sequence Editing via the hardware and software. Such as:

1. When in Sequence Edit Mode, I can set the editing range from the hardware. But there is no indication in the software. I would like the software to highlight the range of events that I set in the hardware for a visual reference.

2. The MPC Software has a basic tool bar in the header. I would like to see dedicated tool icons (pencil, eraser, paint brush, scissors, hand, etc) by the time audio tracks come around.

3. Right clicking in the sequencer grid gives you no editing options. Copy, Paste, Delete, etc should be available as editing options for the mouse. It is not intuitive to use a 'select tool' to select a range of events and then use a keyboard command to execute an editing function.

4. Speaking of keyboard commands, this should be customizable. I would like to assign commands to a single key.

5. Labels in the sequencer headers. I want to add names to the headers above the sequencer grid such as Intro, Verse, Hook, Bridge, etc.

6. MIDI Clip/Phrase Library. To make it easier for others to use the same recording technique.

See...a lot of Ren (MPC) users like duplicate sequences. I like to copy bars and paste them to other sections of the sequence (thus maintaining mixer settings :wink:). Adding these bars or regions to a Phrase Library and support drag-n-drop into the sequencer grid would be a nice touch.


Edit- but then again this isn't a feature request thread. :oops:
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By es-k Wed May 08, 2013 11:46 am
JAH wrote:You can do what I do and record using a single sequence out the gate. Create the number of tracks you want to use by assigning different instruments (MPC, Keygroup, MIDI). Set the number of bars of your composition (you can change this anytime you like). Set the Loop to the range you want such as Bar 1-8 (or simply don't use it at all). Then record. Set the Loop to Bar 9-16...then record another pattern.


alas, a rare glimpse into the elusive workflow of the one and only JAH!

..now lets hear what it sounds like! :-D


jk, jk

on topic - i never used to use the mpc in this way (i used song mode instead).. but with the lack of the ability to copy seq data to next sequence without copying events i been working in one sequence lately.. definitely nice with being able teo set loops points, etc
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By MPCWeapon1 Wed May 08, 2013 3:16 pm
JAH wrote:
TopdaT wrote:One thing that is really awkward for me is the way you sequence your beat or song.
To me it seems it would be easier and more efficient if when you were laying out you song if it was more like a traditional DAW sequencer.

The Ren (and any MPC) does record in the traditional DAW sequencer way. You do not have to record multiple sequences and string them together in Song Mode just to convert them back into a single sequence. A lot of forum members before the latter but I am not one of them.

You can do what I do and record using a single sequence out the gate. Create the number of tracks you want to use by assigning different instruments (MPC, Keygroup, MIDI). Set the number of bars of your composition (you can change this anytime you like). Set the Loop to the range you want such as Bar 1-8 (or simply don't use it at all). Then record. Set the Loop to Bar 9-16...then record another pattern.

Linear recording (like a DAW) in the MPC Ren is easy to do and maintains your Track mixer/effects settings.


Yep..that's how I do it when I'm on my MPC 2500(JJOSXL).
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By JAH Thu May 09, 2013 12:05 am
MPCWeapon1 wrote:Yep..that's how I do it when I'm on my MPC 2500(JJOSXL).

It seems in the forum this is a weird or new concept.

The multiple sequences and Song mode is just an option and is still available in the Ren like it always has been. But then there are the reports of forum members not liking its implementation because the Track Mixer of each sequence is completely unrelated. This forces you to try to copy the mixer settings from one sequence to the next making it a very unintuitive process for those that want to 'mix' while using multiple sequences.....

There is a solution to this that certain forum members just won't listen....and that is to use the Ren the same way as hardware MPCs. The program mixer is key to some guys salvation.

Re: MPC seqencing tips

By labcoats Thu May 09, 2013 12:22 am
There is an alternative method to using only one sequence. If your music has variation this can be a fantastic way to arrange. And the magic part is the arrangement only takes however long the song is. 8)

Using Multiple Sequences:
I'm presuming in your Daw you created variations along the time line. Whist you can do this with one sequence you might find it isnt a fluid if your used to using a Daw sequencer. In fact anyone I know from a Daw background would find working with one long MPC sequence a chore.

So, you create your first sequence - then copy it and add in another part for some some kind of variation. Keep repeating the process until you have what you think is enough different sequences which combined contain contents of a possible song. The idea is Sequence one is your intro, Sequence two is your verse, Sequence five is the break down, Sequence 8 is the verse but with an added new synth line etc etc. I hope you get where Im coming from.

Now For The Magic.
Press the Next Sequence Button.
On the screen you will see your multiple sequences represented by the pads (btw - Im presuming the sequences are named appropriately). Now press play and as you hit the pad which corresponds to a particular sequence - ie Pad one will be the Intro, Pad two the Verse etc, you will notice on your computer screen the time line moving. The Ren is recording your arrangement in real time as you hit the pads to trigger new sections of your song ie different sequences.

Arranging this way is meant to be exciting. You should be feeling the vibe, the moment - as you record your arrangement in real time. If not, then perhaps this style of arranging isnt for you. Make a mistake you can edit the time line easily, or simply have another go.
Once finished note the button which says convert song to sequence. Press that and your arrangement becomes one sequence allowing you to edit and tweak your tune some more if need be. This is exactly what the next Seq was intended for and it really is worth investigating it regardless of your style of music. even if you don't create the arrangement in real time you can step time your sequences to create an arrangement.
Last edited by labcoats on Thu May 09, 2013 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By Coz Thu May 09, 2013 12:28 am
JAH wrote:It seems in the forum this is a weird or new concept.



It's not weird or new, it just bypasses one of the strong points of the MPC workflow. Compared to a DAW way of working, the MPC just isn't that intuitive to work in a linear fashion. Bouncing around one long sequence inputting loop points and copying and pasting various elements... nah, I couldn't work like that.

Committing to a linear arrangement just makes it a pain to start making drastic changes. If you use a lot of tracks it's painful doing it in a regular DAW, but in an MPC it's like pulling teeth.

Re: MPC seqencing tips

By labcoats Thu May 09, 2013 12:42 am
JAH wrote:It seems in the forum this is a weird or new concept.

The multiple sequences and Song mode is just an option

But then there are the reports of forum members not liking its implementation because the Track Mixer of each sequence is completely unrelated. This forces you to try to copy the mixer settings from one sequence to the next making it a very unintuitive process for those that want to 'mix' while using multiple sequences.....

There is a solution to this that certain forum members just won't listen....and that is to use the Ren the same way as hardware MPCs. The program mixer is key to some guys salvation.



Fact is no one I know from a Daw background would ever work with one sequence. Can you understand why? As I stated in another post you dont think like a producer so its highly doubtful you could understand.

I can fully understand why many Hip Hop users will manage fine with one sequence. Much of the genre doesn't have a great deal of dynamic changes which is not a criticism - But there are many forms of music which do have dynamic changes, subtle or not, and this is why its much preferable to create those changes using multiple sequences. Electro, Techno. House, Drum N Bass, even Reggae which most of is made on the fly using the console - in real time as its mixed down. The same concept as next sequence - except the consoles faders are being used to create the dynamic story line...Do you even remotely understand what Im talking about? :Sigh:

Why are you so emotionally attached to the one and only feature standard mixer request I have made. Have you seen me request anything else. A standard Mixer WOULD NOT affect in any way how anyone currently uses the Ren. But it most certainly would enhance it a great deal.

Re: MPC seqencing tips

By labcoats Thu May 09, 2013 12:56 am
Coz wrote:Bouncing around one long sequence inputting loop points and copying and pasting various elements... nah, I couldn't work like that.

If you use a lot of tracks it's painful doing it in a regular DAW, but in an MPC it's like pulling teeth.


Exactly. :nod:

My first sequencer was an Atari running Cubase. Then it was Daws and I still use them of course. I could never write songs with one long MPC sequence. I n all honesty it feels older than the Atari. But I can do real time arrangements with next sequence - I love working on the fly (but of course the mixer issue voids that completely)
The Ren is moving a step in the right direction but its far away from ever being the choice of seasoned Daw users (for sequencing). We will see what happens in further updates.
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Re: MPC seqencing tips

By Coz Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 am
JAH wrote:But for me...copying a sequence to another (what you do) and copying bars to another (what I do) is the same process.



Working across multiple sequences for me is more about composition than arranging. I'll regularly have sequences 1 to 10 with different drum patterns, tempo and feel but all using the same samples. It's perfect for fleshing out an idea. Copying sequences is only a small part of the workflow. It's much more about creating complementary patterns from scratch and the ability to be at any point in your project with a turn of the jog wheel, with each sequence looping by default without making additional settings.

It's far easier to experiment with your arrangement when all the various components are separate. When you work in a linear fashion you're tied in. That's partly the reason why people have so many unfinished projects when they compose in a DAW. You hit the wall and it's just easier to start a new tune than to rearrange your arrangement.
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