Thoughts on a "multi" "parts" "Programs" video

Mike Boogie wrote:I thought everyone with a 4k did this

Maybe they do, hence it was a reminder. It seemed like a useful point to put in the thread for anyone searching in the future and it seemed to have helped at least one person.

What's obvious to some people isn't obvious to others, as everyone has different experience.

Ian Canefire wrote:1) Why use the LFO's in it if you already have a synth, or a synth with a sampler?
2) Why use the sampler engine if you don't mess with samples because you only need a sequencer?
3) Why would you create your own horn section if you have a quality rompler that has it already?

1) This is where the Mod Matrix comes into its own. The balance between flexibility, power and ease of use makes it the most potent one I've personally ever used. Hardware or software. Synth or sampler. It'll cack all over any rompler type synth with ease.

2) I'll come back to 2...

3) This is entirely down to taste and sonic preference. For me, horns have to come from real horns. Guitars have to come from real played guitars etc. I'm talking about the phrasing and articulation mainly. I appreciate the lengths that the sound designers go to with creating their patches, but they never sound authentic being played from a keyboard IMO.

2)... If you don't use the sampler engine you're missing out on at least 75% of the machine's capabilities. A true grasp of the machine can't be achieved without using it as a sampler/sequencer combo. I'm not too sure why you want to make a video about parts, programs and multis if you're only using it as a midi sequencer?

Either way, I know you're not trying to do a masterclass with your videos, but even the Sounds For Samplers video didn't really scratch the surface of what's possible, and he's a long time user. I'm not trying to put you off by the way. I just think you'd benefit by unlocking the sampling side of things.

I'll PM you something soon which might help...

You do realize I was speaking rhetorically? lol

Wasnt saying that I wouldn't or didn't think others should. Was making the point as to why people might not use multis or whatever.


cheers
Ian

You've mentioned a few times in the past that you don't you use the sampler in the 4K. I apologise if that's changed.

If it's still the case that you only use the 4K as a sequencer, what I say is perfectly valid. It also applies to anyone else asking the same rhetorical questions.

@ Coz...I gotcha. Looking forward to the PM.

Peace
Ian

Ian Canefire wrote:Great stuff from two folks so far...

@ Feline... that is a pleasantly succinct definition of the Multi and I will use that in the video. I am not sure if I would have put it so well.


Cheers,
Ian

You're welcome.

To quantify the analogy a little more:
you can have up to 128 parts in a Multi.

So a Multi is the virtual equivalent of an 128-channel mixing desk, with four Aux (FX) sends.

The controls on each Part are rather limited compared to an analogue mixing desk, though! There's no EQ, for starters. You have:
- Level
- Pan
- FX send level
- a button to select FX routing (i.e. you can only send to one FX bus at time, or one pair of FX buses)
- a button to select output routing (i.e. you can send the Part to the main LR outs, or to separate outs 1 to

This analogy is shown graphically in Ak.Sys in the Multi screen.

Feline, Coz, Lamp and others brought up some excellent points on the usage and functionality of the multis.

My two cents is like before if you ever operated or used Reason the multi is very similar every instrument is assigned a part aka channel on a mixer with everything feline explained.

In addition multis are like Combinater in Reason or a Combi in a Triton keyboard when it come to key group programs where you can use the internal sampler midi routing to layer instruments to the same midi channel to create a uber patch each can be route various ways.

Yup even Roland's Fantom boards use Multis I believe for there über patches. Kontakt 5, Ominsphere, and other plugins works the same way for the software heads. On Daws like Ableton we make a Rack assign multiple simplers, samplers, synth to same midi port. The 4k was ahead of it's time being that the multi's I was told by old akai designed to make the engine akin to a synth. Multi-timbal Hardware and software synths use Multis for mixer routing and layering the other difference is that 4k uses samples than oscillators. If you have experience with them then 4k multi becomes easier to understand. Though you can sample your fav synth waveforms make a program and layer them. Not to far out if you like sampling. Cyrus and a couple others talk about
how they make patches layering this way.

So this will not be a bad video to make after all. lol

@Blue Haze... you are correct that the Fantoms have this function. All of the major workstations have this layering function. I will be sure to point it out in the Fantom S/X in the video. In the Fantom it is extremely easy to understand...there layout is better than any other. The Yamaha version is complex lots of button presses.
In the Fantom it is not called a multi (of course).

I spent the weekend trying to think through how to lay it all out. The problem will be keeping it under 10 minutes.

Thanks for the information any other tips and ideas are welcome. I want to thoroughly sort this out.

Peace
Ian

To my mind, (mis) understanding multi's and the mod matrix is one of the main reasons some folk give up on the 4000. Apparently the learning curve is just a bit too steep to comprehend compared to other MPC's, because you are unlikely to crack it without studying the manual to some degree.

A video about multi's is a good idea, but there are different levels of basic understanding in your potential audience so perhaps drop it in parts, beginner, intermediate and advanced as it will be a stretch to cover everything in 20 minutes.

I've dabbled with the mod matrix a little bit and would best describe it as the most underused feature of the 4000, but also arguably the most interesting feature. I don't think a video could show all the possibilities, but perhaps a few good examples of how it can be used to manipulate other sections of the sampler. I did a "Round Robin" tutorial a while back using the mod matrix, which is a little trick which shines during live performance. Arkyve was gonna do a video of it, but life got in the way...

(It's on p.10 of the 4K Newbie Bible if you fancy giving it a shot)

Props to you Ian for copping the 4000 relatively recently and posting videos that even us old heads can appreciate. You got mad love for the gear in your studio and the MPC community at large.

Love seeing people both getting back into the MPC 4000 and other hardware pieces. The MPC 4000, and a couple of other hardware pieces that released around that time frame, were ahead of their time and were unfortunately pushed aside pretty quickly as their release coincided with the bubbling adoption of software. While software, especially at this point, is extremely powerful and flexible, I feel that a lot of people are missing out on a lot of hardware gems. After buying, using, and returning both the Maschine and Renaissance, while already owning the 3000, 4000, and now the 2500, I realized that all of this new software stuff, for me at least, is missing something. I am now in the process of putting together an even more hardware based studio that mixes in software where it needs to be. When I had the Ren sitting next to the 4000 on my desk, I felt I was being disrespectful to the 4000 as the Ren shouldnt have even been in the same zip code as the 4000. Right now, I am thoroughly enjoying the 2500 with JJOS and will break the 4000 back out when I can properly build around it the way it deserves to be built around. It's the crown jewel.

If you still got the original Akai CD that comes with the 4k it shouldn't be to hard to show a video using key group programs like piano and bass spilts over keys, two programs layered over each other using tilt velocity and velocity splits using the int A or Int B. Then assign a qlink controller to change filter of one layer, lfo rate, or something. It would be easier if you use a keyboard midi controller along with the 4k to route to the matrix.

As far as parts go an idea is to have the sequence is playing and with a program change or qlink bank change you can change with whole set up to all new multi with different programs, fx routing and etc just like Feline pointed out.

Just some ideas.

MaZe wrote:Love seeing people both getting back into the MPC 4000 and other hardware pieces. The MPC 4000, and a couple of other hardware pieces that released around that time frame, were ahead of their time and were unfortunately pushed aside pretty quickly as their release coincided with the bubbling adoption of software. While software, especially at this point, is extremely powerful and flexible, I feel that a lot of people are missing out on a lot of hardware gems. After buying, using, and returning both the Maschine and Renaissance, while already owning the 3000, 4000, and now the 2500, I realized that all of this new software stuff, for me at least, is missing something. I am now in the process of putting together an even more hardware based studio that mixes in software where it needs to be. When I had the Ren sitting next to the 4000 on my desk, I felt I was being disrespectful to the 4000 as the Ren shouldnt have even been in the same zip code as the 4000. Right now, I am thoroughly enjoying the 2500 with JJOS and will break the 4000 back out when I can properly build around it the way it deserves to be built around. It's the crown jewel.