Standard Track Mixer - Detached From Sequences.

labcoats wrote:You beta test for the next three years if you wish - I wont because this is what I do for a living. Music (and the gear I use) is not a hobby to supplement my internet activities. Im sure you understand what I mean.

I'm sure he has no understanding of what you mean.

He is unable to accept that anything different goes on outside his little hobby MPC world.

JAH wrote:

labcoats wrote:
I arrange the song in real time. It records the arrangement perfectly, all sequences play as they should. Any issues are experienced after converting the song to one new sequence.

And this is exactly where your problem is. Arranging them perfectly and using them in Next Sequence or Song Mode will not be an issue. Convert multiple sequences into 1 sequence will be an issue every time...especially if you are creating sequences with multi tracks, different mix settings, etc. In you case, converting will always be a nightmare. 1.4 will not help you in this regard. You ignore your best solution...

I have considered this, and what you say does make sense and if its true it simply shows further limitations of the software.
Regardless it just feels like a bug as far as I'm concerned and simply reinforces the need further for Akai to urgently address the mixer implementation,a nd at the same time address the (possibly) broken Next Seq function
.
If I were to record Ableton lives session view clips and scenes in to the arrange view in real time - (which is its prime function, and of course similar to the Rens sequences/tracks) - but that recorded mix/arrangement ended up being jumbled I have a rather strong feeling Ableton wouldn't have reached Ver 3 of their software. Im certainly not suggesting the Ren should emulate Live btw.

My best solution (workaround) is to avoid the Rens mixer completely, but there are not enough out puts. However, it would just be so much easier with a universal mixer mode. Its implementation would enhance the Ren/Studio software immensely.
I cant say any more about this, but thanks for you input.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

labcoats wrote:Leave it the way it is and implement an option where the user can delink the mixer from sequences universally or on a per sequence basis. I think thats kinda what your saying - right?.

Yes, that is what I am saying, and that is why there are the Master/Sequence/Program settings for the mixers in the MPC60/3000.

They just need to implement the same sort of setting in the MPC Software.

It already does it in Song Mode.

In the MPC Software it might be Project instaed of Master, as you still need to save the mixer settings somewhere, and have them reloaded with your beats.

yes, I agree with that.

labcoats wrote:

JAH wrote:

labcoats wrote:
I arrange the song in real time. It records the arrangement perfectly, all sequences play as they should. Any issues are experienced after converting the song to one new sequence.

And this is exactly where your problem is. Arranging them perfectly and using them in Next Sequence or Song Mode will not be an issue. Convert multiple sequences into 1 sequence will be an issue every time...especially if you are creating sequences with multi tracks, different mix settings, etc. In you case, converting will always be a nightmare. 1.4 will not help you in this regard. You ignore your best solution...

I have considered this, and what you say does make sense and if its true it simply shows further limitations of the software.
Regardless it just feels like a bug as far as I'm concerned and simply reinforces the need further for Akai to urgently address the mixer implementation,a nd at the same time address the (possibly) broken Next Seq function
.
If I were to record Ableton lives session view clips and scenes in to the arrange view in real time - (which is its prime function, and of course similar to the Rens sequences/tracks) - but that recorded mix/arrangement ended up being jumbled I have a rather strong feeling Ableton wouldn't have reached Ver 3 of their software. Im certainly not suggesting the Ren should emulate Live btw.

My best solution (workaround) is to avoid the Rens mixer completely, but there are not enough out puts. However, it would just be so much easier with a universal mixer mode. Its implementation would enhance the Ren/Studio software immensely.
I cant say any more about this, but thanks for you input.

You say it feels like a bug but the MPC 1000, 2000XL, 2500, 4000, and 5000 perform exactly the same way. There is nothing that these MPCs do in this regard that is different than the Ren/Studio.

When you convert a song, the specific settings used in each track within the sequence, such as track type, MIDI channel setting, selection of the program, etc, will be set to the values that you set in the sequence in the first step of the song. If the track setting of the sequence in another step is different from those in the first step of the song, the song may not be converted properly.

To avoid this, it is better to mae the track settings and the prder of each sequence the same. This is detailed in all the manuals of all the MPCs I listed above but not very clear in the Ren's manual. You won't have any issues if you follow these steps.

Another alternative is to not use the Track Mixer until after you convert the song. Drum and Plugin programs can be used in multiple sequences as their mixer is 'detached from the sequences'.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the Next Sequence function. It also works exactly like the MPC 4000.

JAH wrote:Another alternative is to not use the Track Mixer until after you convert the song.

This is a feature request thread.

The request is for a feature that lets users work with the Track Mixer, and multiple sequences, BEFORE converting to a song.

Hey guys.

Took me ages to read through all your comments above, but i totally agree with labcoats on this mixing issue.
I just recently purchased MPC Ren and the actually work flow of mixing or adding tracks/plug-ins is very frustrating to me.
Long story short - I assume based on your commets above that the best thing at this point is to either have a master sequence that you copy ALL the time if you change things or Convert all of your sequences to 1 Song and then adjust accordingly?????

Question when converting to 1 Song - will i still be able to Overdub from any point in that massive sequence or does it start at the beginning? Sorry havent tried that yet.

Thanks dudes.
This is a very good info and topic.
Cheers
Artem

Ruski21 wrote:will i still be able to Overdub from any point in that massive sequence or does it start at the beginning?

Yes you are and no it won't..

BOOM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4dSoRnoB78&nomobile=1

DSTR / deStar wrote:BOOM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4dSoRnoB78&nomobile=1

But this video is showing a Program Mixer not a Track Mixer.

If you use a Program in the MPC Software in multiple Sequences, any changes you make to the Program Mixer will be applied to ALL sequences.

I completely agree about having an option for a 'global' type track mixer. When I discuss the mixer, several folks think I am in disagreement with the idea when I am not. I just take exception to saying that it should be like MPC xyz when those MPCs do not have what people desire.

Take for instance the MPC 3000. The MPC 3000 has a Program Mixer only. It does not have a track mixer. It's Program Mixer has 3 options: Program, Sequence, and Master

1. Program. When the MPC 3000 Mixer is set to Program, it treats all programs as separate entities. When you change the volume or pan within a program it impacts this program where ever you use it but it will not impact any other program. Regardless of which Sequence you use this program, it will maintain its settings.

Example: If '808' program has a kick drum on Pad A01 and you change the volume of that pad, the volume will change in every track or sequence that uses this program. This IS your GLOBAL mixer. If you have '909' program loaded, any changes you make to the '808' program will not impact the '909' program.

This is how the MPC Software performs. This is ideal for creating variations of the same sequence that you will later use to build a song.



2. Sequence. When the MPC 3000 Mixer is set to Sequence, it treats all sequences as separate entities to include their programs.

Example: You can use '808' program in Sequence 001 and Sequence 002. If you lower the volume of Pad A01 in Sequencer 001, it will have no impact on the same program/same pad in Sequence 002.

This is ideal for those that record linear sequences with each sequence being a new composition. It allows you to use the same drum kit in multiple sequences when changes won't impact other sequences.

The MPC Software doesn't have this exactly as spec'd in the MPC 3000. In the MPC Software, any changes to a Program Mixer will be applied globally. So you would simply not use the Program Mixer and use the Track Mixer. This will allow you to use the same drum kit on multiple tracks and multiple sequences. Any mix changes you make to a Track will not impact any other track.


3. Master. When the MPC 3000 Mixer is set to Master, it treats all programs the same. This really is a 'global' mixer with a caveat of undesirable traits.

Example: Load '808' program and 'Bass' program. Create two sequences with these programs (MPC 3000 only uses one program per sequence). Now adjust the volume of a bass note which just happens to be on Pad A01. Guess what happens? The kick drum on Pad A01 of '808' program has just been changed as well. I am sure there must be some reason why you would want a sound in one program to impact an unrelated sound in another globally….I just can't think of one. The MPC Software doesn't have this type of mixer in any form.


Final remarks - At no time did I mention an MPC 3000 track mixer as there is none. This is a figment of some forum member's imagination.

What many MPC Ren/Studio users want is it's Track Mixer to perform like it's Program Mixer. They want every sequence to use the same Track Mixer which right now they are independent of one another. This is great but it would impact those treating sequences as independent song ideas. So if Sequence 001 is a Pop song and Sequence 002 is a Hip-hop song, adjusting the 'global' track mixer will impact both songs which would be undesirable. To benefit all users, there should be an option to choose Track Mixer behavior.

This feature request would be new to MPCs. No hardware MPC has this function therefore there is no reason to even mention them in this regard. I clearly wrote numerous times I support this feature request. I only raise concerns about proper implementation for all users. And I certainly object to those that paint the mixer of hardware MPCs in way that seem superior to the MPC Software when they are not.

Okay okay, enough about the global mixer. And no more 'Simon vs Jah' taking over topics please - if you guys want to chew the fat over any issue, do it via PM, the public forum isn't the place to air out your little grievances with each other.

So both of you - stop the digs, stop the insults, stop berating each other. Enough's enough.

Sorry... I have to talk about it more.

Does Maschine have that?

If so, I'm switching. Enough is enough. I want to make beats, and I'm waiting FOREVER here.

(I don't see the Ren's resale value very high, though...)

Thanks.

DSTR / deStar wrote:(I don't see the Ren's resale value very high, though...)

Don't hang onto it because of the resale value. It'll drop even further and continue to nosedive as time goes on.

Maschine is apparently getting a "significant" update soon, so that may sway you.

DSTR / deStar wrote:Sorry... I have to talk about it more.

Does Maschine have that?

If so, I'm switching. Enough is enough. I want to make beats, and I'm waiting FOREVER here.

(I don't see the Ren's resale value very high, though...)

Thanks.

Maschine doesn't have a mixer. But it does offer you a way to adjust the volume/pan of individual sounds as well as a Group.

Visit the Native Instrument's Forum if you want detailed information about it. There is plenty of information there from Maschine fanatics.

Have you guys thought about any possible solutions for making this mixer better?

What I would like to see AKAI developing is a global mixer with plenty of channels (let's say 99 atleast?). Now add a possibility to freely route a track to any of these channels. No more problems with mixing during the beat making process, and still those who want to have different channels for different sequences, can route them as they wish.

It's starting to seem like this mixer we have right now is so hard coded, that it might need a complete re-write to function as a global one. I must say that I'm eager to find out how the Maschine 2.0 mixer will function on this part, though I've just learned to enjoy the MPC workflow and I'm not that eager to start learning a new one again with Maschine...