Funny thing about the MPC Renaissance (4K related)

First things first, this is not a Ren bashing thread. It's more of an "isn't it ironic" thread. I owned the MPC Ren for the hottest of half seconds and in that time, I found myself constantly looking for features that I had grown accustomed to and became vital to me while working on the 4K. They weren't there. Now, when I check out the Ren forum, I notice that there are a lot of feature requests in there that are already, and have been for I guess a decade now, in the 4K. Most of the people making these requests have no idea that these features are already in the 4K. Thing is, a decade ago, when the 4K came out, people didn't seem to want those features because it seems that at the time, many people didn't understand them or want to bother to learn them. With that being said, when you combine the 4K, ak.sys (another huge part of the 4K that people forget about) and a good midi/audio interface, I just don't see how the Ren stacks up to that. Especially considering that I saw a fully loaded used 4K in GC of all places, for $850. Another thing that people don't seem to realize is the sound that an actual hardware analog machine produces. The analog outs on the 4K sound amazing and the machine can go from the most pristine 24bit sound to a grungy 12bit sound in the same breath, no need for plugins. Now I understand the convenience, portability, etc. of the Ren but again, besides that, as of right now, it just doesn't stack up when people are unknowingly requesting things that are in the 4K. My 2 cents. Still crazy to me that the 4K isn't deemed a classic MPC on the level of past classics. Maybe in another 10 years it will be.

MaZe

Ummmm.....YES.

True on all counts and I feel like 75% of what's considered "Ren Bashing" on this forum is in the "that's ironic/odd/ " category. Which most objective people have no problem with.

It was a victim of a huge feature set and an OS that took revisions to solidify. But it never seemed to recover from the initial perceptions, it was hard to use, sounded surgically clean and ONLY surgically clean, and was somehow overkill as an MPC should have some imagined limits based on this one just being a pretty hug leap from the 60/3000/2000/XL as far as capabilities. Which looking at the swiss army remit of the Ren is again...ironic. And none of the perceptions are really true, it's not hard to use and can do gritty to clean, it's just more headroom and a bigger sound canvas to utilize from an mix/audio standpoint.

But again I feel you 100%, adequate table space is like the number issue encountered by a 4000 owner. And as ever I have no need or want to bash the Ren, which most of the so called bashing posts are not bashing, simply asking legitimate questions or pointing out what they might feel are design miscues.

I'll co-sign most of what you have said here.

I tried the Ren out. I work with the software on occasion and the only thing I can defend about the Ren is the potential in the software. Of course everyone is finding out that it is a glorified controller with a audio interface.

I finally started digging into Ak.sys recently and will attest that once it works properly, it is a damn good program for editing parameters in the 4k. A big bonus is that it works in real time. These cats that are sleeping on the 4k BIG TIME!

I believe the Ren will fit in once it excels beyond what the 4k and 5k feature set can cover. (Realtime pitch shift/stretch, synth creation, etc.)

I definitely have my eye on the Studio in the future.

Metatron72 wrote:Ummmm.....YES.

True on all counts and I feel like 75% of what's considered "Ren Bashing" on this forum is in the "that's ironic/odd/ " category. Which most objective people have no problem with.

Exactly this.

Metatron72 wrote:
Which looking at the swiss army remit of the Ren is again...ironic.

Exactly this again. The Ren was made in the vain of the "classic" hardware MPCs and was limited by design to fall in line with the 60/3000/2000xl/etc. Now, people are requesting that it become a "swiss army" knife and combine all these "unnecessary" features into one box. You know, kind of like the 4K. Ironic....

Metatron72 wrote:
adequate table space is like the number issue encountered by a 4000 owner.

The true struggle of every 4K owner, until you buy an on stage stand!

MaZE

Mike Boogie wrote:
I believe the Ren will fit in once it excels beyond what the 4k and 5k feature set can cover. (Realtime pitch shift/stretch, synth creation, etc.)
.

Funny that you say this because, the way the Ren is now, you need a DAW. Now any good DAW, logic, ableton, etc., already features these things, which is why people want them in the Ren "DAW". With ak.sys, you can already take advantage of the bells and whistles in a DAW. Don't like the timstretch in the 4K? Cool, drag the sample from ak.sys to logic, timestretch it, drag it back. Done. The 4K interfaces with a DAW/computer better than even the Ren does. Also, in terms of synth creation, the "synth" in the 4K is better than the "synth" in the 5K. The only difference is you need to put samples in the 4K first. It doesn't generate it's own sounds. Once you've done that though, and if you have good sample sets, like the Hollow Sun library from years back, you have an extremely powerful sampling/synth/sequencer that interfaces seamlessly with a computer. Still, I think it's crazy that people don't realize this...

Y'all remember Just Blaze's 5K rant? That was coming from a 4K user that was spoiled by the 4K. When he saw the 5K and how "gimped" it was, he ranted about the 5K not featuring a bunch of things that were already in the 4K years earlier. The same exact thing can be said about the Ren.

Feel like I might just get my Dr. Dre on and throw multiple 4Ks in the studio like he does 3Ks. HA!

MaZe

The Ren has ended up being a damp squib, whichever way you look at it. I think the future is bleak for it too. When the figures stop adding up it'll be dropped like every other Nukai machine.

The 4K on the other hand is timeless. I'm doing stuff at the minute that I didn't think I'd ever be able to do on an MPC.

Coz, you may be right. I know from my contact at the Uks largest chain store the Ren and Studio have not sold well. I suspect the story is the same across Europe. Dont know about the US. Perhaps the Hip Hop community is enough of a user base for Akai, but if not....

I have a Ren. It now sits doing nothing because I refuse to use it as a 4 bar sketch pad. I have other software which allows me to do that without the frustration - and of course I have a 4k. I can only hope future updates bring the features I need to actually write and mix a tune completely within the Ren - without resorting to half baked work arounds. That is what I want to be able to do with it!

Akai - don't give me VST support and Daw(ish) features without the proper tools to use those features.

My shop also says the rens not selling.And my 4k gets better by the day too. (ie-resample @ 12bit omg)

edit-but i really do hope that they crack that ren software as its a great controller.

dryad-66 wrote:i really do hope that they crack that ren software

H20????

The way I see it. The ren is at the same shape as the 4k when it was new or previously released. Take it from me. I paid $3000 for the 4k at 2002 released time and it was a piece of sh^T. Bugs, glitches, unstable and lack of features.

The reason there's not a super amount of 4k floating around for you guys to buy second hand. Because the 4k was real failure for akai. Do you know how many years it took akai to get the 4k to the point of being stable and the feature it now has.

I started with a new 2k and move to a 4k, 5k and now the ren. Other than the 2k, akai release every model after 2kxl with problems and delayed features.

Sure the ren has some rough edges and missing feature. But, check your history and look back at the 4k time line. What you call classic, use to be a disaster. Maybe one day you'll look and read posting of how great the ren is, and the new mpc**** is crap.

All the ren need is software updates to make it as good as the 4k or 100 times better, but you'll never see a new update for the 4k.

Heavie wrote:Do you know how many years it took akai to get the 4k to the point of being stable and the feature it now has...check your history and look back at the 4k time line. What you call classic, use to be a disaster.

Check your history and you'll realise that Akai itself wasn't even stable at that time. Someone deserves some credit for actually getting it as far as 1.71, although it still could have been even better. That 'white elephant' still hasn't been bettered 10+ years later, and as a standalone MPC, maybe it never will. No need for expensive 3rd party 'bolt-ons'...

Heavie wrote:All the ren need is software updates to make it as good as the 4k or 100 times better, but you'll never see a new update for the 4k.

Let me know when the Ren gets on 4K's level. Thanks.

Edit: Actually, let me know when the Ren gets on any MPC's level. Pick one, any one. I'll be waiting.

MaZe

Heavie wrote:What you call classic, use to be a disaster. Maybe one day you'll look and read posting of how great the ren is, and the new mpc**** is crap.

The Ren will never reach 'classic' status because it'll be in a landfill somewhere or recycled into toothbrushes long before that happens. I personally think that being an early adopter is the most overhyped waste of time for anyone who seriously wants to make music, while being uninhibited. Most music gear and software these days is 'in development', or as I like to call it, 'unfinished'. I don't see the fascination.

1.4 might be good for current users but it won't shift units. Nukai also haven't got the expertise to make the Ren '100 times better than the 4K'. It won't happen so stop kidding yourself.

Coz wrote:Nukai also haven't got the expertise to make the Ren '100 times better than the 4K'. It won't happen so stop kidding yourself.

/thread.

MaZe

Ironically one of the biggest potential PR/Sales features of the Ren doesnt even register at Akai. The Ren/Studio could be the best real time performance sampling drum machine/sequencer out there by a huge margin.

When I look at various forums talking about Maschine, Tempest, Ableton Live, Electron etc - time and time again its the real time performance features which users salivate over. The Ren has so much potential here but fails due to its incredibly stupid mixer tied to sequences design (amongst other things). If Akai went all out and showed how a user can create performances live using the next seq function AND its use for real time arranging of songs they would attract a whole new audience. (Providing the mixing architecture is fixed of course) But I suspect it will never happen.

What wll happen is the implementation of half assed Daw(ish) features. Anything the PR dept thinks they can use will be the order of the day regardless if XY feature is actually useful. But the PR dept totally underestimates the potential user base out there.

Enhancing the actual core concept of using an MPC should have been the order of the day - and DEFINITELY the 4ks matrix type sequencing features should have been raided. For chrissakes!! we have 16 Q links knobs ideal for that purpose but sit there doing nothing more than bobbles on a **** Xmas tree.

The Ren does have potential but my gut feeling is it will always be limited and will never quite get there. I can only hope Im proved wrong.