Send System Exclusive messages from the MPC 60

Hi all,
has anyone ever successfully managed to transmit a System Exclusive message from an MPC 60?

Simply put, here's what I'd like to do: Using the step edit function, I'd like to enter a SysEx message that tells my S1100 to open or close a filter. I've found a number of explanations on how to write and use sysex messages but I'm not exactly sure how to input them in the sequencer.

If in Step-Edit I "insert" a System Exclusive event here is what I get:
SysEx> Size: 001 Byte:001 Val:000

According to the Akai S900/S1000 - SysEx Documentation:
"The first 5 bytes of all S1000 messages have the form:
F0h Exclusive
47h Akai
cc Exclusive Channel (0-127)
ff Function Code
48h S1000"

So before I even try to understand how to transmit the filter change message I'm already at a loss to understand how to write the first byte
I would guess I'd have to specify a sysex message with byte 001 having value F0, byte 002 value 47 and so on. But the value parameter is not hexadecimal and even in decimal form it only goes up to 127 (F0 in decimal is 240...)

Does anyone know how I should go about doing this?
Thanks!

You might find it easier to assign a realtime controller to filter cutoff in the sampler,
and then send the corresponding cc or what ever messages from the MPC.
Usually you can assign thing's like velocity, mod wheel , aftertouch and control change messages.

Hi Mitch,
unfortunately, unlike other synths, the S1100 doesn't have a CC implementation for the filter or any of the parameters of specific programs. If you send a volume control change, for example, it would change the volume of the stereo output of the sampler, not the specific programs (called keygroups on the S1100).

Apparently there is a way to do keygroup specific changes on the older s950 so I'm pretty sure it can be done on the s1100.
It's just a matter of how understanding how to do it...

did you check out the S1100 manual ?

So I just looked at the S1000 manual (which also covers s1100) and according to page 64 .what you want is possible by using velocity and/or aftertouch,.
You set it up on the filter page.

First check if the 1100 sends sysex via its filter. Then record a sysex message via midi cable in the 60 sequencer at the desired location. You'll have to check how you can drop sysex from the s1100 i remember you could do that i think from the midi button. You have to dump the message i think. Its not just turning the filter up and down and recording as the sequencer plays. I always wanted to try doing this with my s950 and chech what can be modulated from within the mpc 60. I'll probably try that today

Other than that you can modulate the filter with velocity, if that suits you. Hitting the pad harder will turn the filter up or down, depending how you set the envelopes

Hope it helps

Hi and thank you both for your replies.
I'm already using the velocity->filter function to shape the sound but totally forgot about aftertouch! It's a very good suggestion but think I found a slightly easier workaround.

Initially I just created two programs (one with filter open, one closed) and just sent a prog change message but there was a slight delay so I would generally miss the first note before the change took place. An even easier solution was to put the two programs on different midi channels. This way, everything played on channel 1 would have the filter closed and everything on channel 2 would be open. Works like a charm!

Soundthech, I did manage to transmit a SysEx message from the s1100 (it it under the midi button) while on step edit but all it records is a 5 byte message. I tried changing the filter cutoff point and then recorded a second message on bar 2 using step edit but when I play back either of them nothing happens (other than the midi receive light flashing on the s1100). I also just got an s950 so please do let me know if you have any luck with modulating parameter from the 60.

Thanks!

yeah all those are good ideas i had in mind myself. quite nice how these machines get you thinking

i'll come back with results on the s950. there as well you can copy the same sample, put it on 2 different keygroups and then leave the filter open on one and for the other turn it down or however you like it best

that filter on the 950 is really sweet

Hi just getting back on this. verified inside my s1000 today. from the midi menu, you can drop a sysex message, one of them relates to drum settings, program settings, etc something like that (including samples, which is nice)

and it dumps the message. i havent recorded in the mpc 60 sequencer but i checked with midi ox and noticed the message does get sent.

the s950 sent no sysex. after my checkings

i'll try recording on the 60 and see if the sysex message memorises the filter cutoff points and then see how these get played from the 60 to the s1000, in my case.

Great soundtech. Yeah, I did manage to send and dump a SysEx message to the MPC from the S1100 (MIDI ---> EXCL ---> SEND)
I specified the program in question and recorded the message (using step edit) on Bar 1 of a 2-Bar test sequence on the MPC. The message gets recorded but as I was saying it seems too short... Only 5 bytes in length...

I altered the filter value and then sent the message again and recorded it on bar two. The values inside each of the 5 bytes are exactly the same and when I played the sequence the filter value remained unchanged

About the s950, dunno if you saw my link from the earlier post but if it's of any help try checking out this: Detailed specification of S900/S950 messages

Let me know if you have any luck (with either sampler ) and thanks for the help so far!

Bro i found a solution

It came into my mind today and i just tried it.

Set up your program in the s1100.

Lets say the program is named DRUMS

Do all your settings for your drums, chops, samples whatever

Then copy the program from the program button to a new program, DRUMS 2, for example

Set DRUMS 1 to program number 1

And DRUMS 2 to program number 2

Then in DRUMS 2 set all the filtering, pitching down and so on whatever changes you'd like to make in you arrangement at some point

Go on your 60 and instead of recording a sysex message, record a program change.

Say you have a 4 bar loop, in step edit insert a Program change to 1 @ 1.00.00 and then Program change 2 @ 2.00.00 just to test it out

That way it will play your original program for the first two bars, and then your filter gets into game for the following two bars

For some reason after i inserted program changes in my 60, in the step edit, the recorded data shows in step edit but when the sequencer plays it didn't change the program number on the main screen. i don't know why that is. Any ideas? (3.10 os)

However if i just stopped the sequencer and manually changed the PGM value from the main screen, it changed as well the programs on my s1000. So it worked if i manually changed the number from the main screen page, but not when playing the recorded program changes and the sequencer playing. I guess i'll have to look further into that.

As well i tried it with the s950 but the way the 60 transmitted Pgm changes to the s950 was rather erratic, so couldn't change the programs whenever i wanted, just when i manually switched Pgm from "OFF" to "2" for example, but if i changed from "1" to "2", on the other hand there was no change on my s950. I''ll have to sort that out, and see how s950 behaves with program changes. it seems the s1000 worked a lot more smoothly as i am sure your 1100 will too

Give it a try

Hope this helps

Hey Sountech.
Thanks for that. I did actually try that approach and it worked but I found that because the program change takes a few milliseconds to come into effect if there was a note playing on the same 'step' that would be lost (not played in either program).
An easy workaround is to simply place the program change on the previous step (for example 01.04.72 instead of 02.00.00) but if there was a note playing there too the same thing would happen...
Using a separate midi channel for each program (and I mean an AKAI program not a MIDI program) without using MIDI program changes solved the issue for me. Although it would still be useful to know if and how the SysEx messages work because they would really unlock a lot of key functions of the sampler.

In regards to the program number shown on the screen I think that is used in situations where you switch from one sequence to another.
Let's say for example that in 'Seq 01 - Verse' you had a Bass track on MIDI channel 16 with Prog: 7 and in 'Seq 02 - Chorus' the Bass track (on MIDI channel 16) had Prog: 15.
Now, if in Song mode you were to put 'Seq 01 - Verse' followed by 'Seq 02 - Chorus' when the switching took place a program change would also be sent. But if halfway through 'Seq 02 - Chorus' you inserted a Program Change using step edit the original program number associated to that track would be overridden but the Prog: ## on the display would remain at the original value.

Not sure about the s950 and program changes as I just got it last week and haven't had a chance to have a proper play with it yet. But with that too I'm guess the different midi channel approach might simplify things.

Hope this helps and if by any chance you have some breakthrough about SysEx messages on the 60 let me know.
Cheers

Cheers for the detailed reply and posting this.

Its all really good info

I'll do more testing and come back to you.

You're right about the few miliseconds delay for the program change to happen, so a program change a few ticks earlier may be a good idea. You reckon sysex will be faster than pgm change? We will see

I'll look forward in it, i'm sure there are workarounds

Let me know about your 950 please and thanks for posting

I can't remember the exact source but when I was reading about SysEx last week I found that the messages do have a small delay so they couldn't be used to do things like filter sweeps etc... So in that sense they wouldn't be more efficient than program changes.
All the same, I think they could be very handy for remotely manipulating a lot of the sampler's parameters (it gets tricky when you have 3 samplers and just two hands! ) without having to create 5 different copies of the same program or use up midi channels.

Cheers