what akai should do....pls vote

You just can't help but want to argue when there's nothing to argue.

It's just who you are I guess.

C'mon be serious. Just because tracks can done even with bugs and a feature set that's still in progress doesn't automatically confer best ever status, it just means it generally useable and functional.

It just always comes down to if other people aren't 100% as gung ho and pleased as punch as you are, then you want to argue.

There's no controversy in saying a product with a scalable design that gets updated regularly will likely be improved as those two things happen more and more. Especially one that is less than a year old and would be planned for at minimum a five year lifespan before a new one was released to supplant it.

And it takes a few updates to software to reach a point where you have a basic core that will be indicative of what the product will be for it's whole remaining life cycle. This is Akai or any software vendor.

So if anything people are just saying a couple more updates and they feel like this thing is in full swing and only going up from there.

So sure you can make tracks with it, who's arguing that? But that doesn't mean if they stopped development and froze it in current state everyone should be satisfied with that. Which by the logic you're working from would be fine with you. Not that you'd want that, that would be crazy.

"With the amount of time spent discussing the Ren over the past 1 1/2 years in this forum...most already 'invested' in it..as time equates to money in my book. "

Yeah sure that makes a lot sense after you post on this thing near 6000 times in like 14 months. You must getting rich posting here.

Yeah that's what internet, and reviews and discussion do, discuss the good, the bad, how the bad gets better and also how the good improves even more. The whole picture. It's a normal common approach to any complex pursuit that many people engage in an (hopefully) can meet on the square on discuss all aspects realistically.

But if as hinted by your "try [buy] it now, don't hesitate" is your main concern, then you are simply the shill that you often accused of being. And normal dialogue and observations are to you "the enemy of sales".

JAH wrote:

fobedafied wrote:i only invest in proven products.

But aren't you an MPC user? If so, then obviously you have waited until the OS of your favorite MPC to mature before you 'invested' in it.

yep. i copped my mpc well after its proven OS was released.

i would suggest others do the same and not buy into unproven gear before its development has matured.

it may take longer and more attempts to mature to a respectable level than previous mpcs for a variety of reasons.

developers are one relevant reason imo.

With the amount of time spent discussing the Ren over the past 1 1/2 years in this forum...most already 'invested' in it..as time equates to money in my book.

lol. time i have much more of than money. even if i were to die tomorrow.

so now we know why you go to such lengths to defend a piece of taiwanese circuitry. your own investment. time money and ego...

You can always count on forums and blogs to detail the worst of products. But there are plenty of folks creating music with the same tool that you deem unproven. I suggest you try it out for yourself as everyone will have a different experience using the Ren/Studio...which is obvious by the Video Thread here in this forum

forums tell all sides. thats why id rather post here than hang out at guitar center.

plenty of music being created on an sp202 also. kazoos... buckets... wood blocks, and belly slaps.... no bugs there!!! no latency either....

still i don't see why akai should stick with ren and not produce a hybrid mpc.

they are gonna be two different things.akai will get more money to invest and develope the software, people are gonna have more options and having the ability to use an standalone mpc while the software daw is in development is only a nice thing.

akai produced the mpc studio also, that doesn't mean that they are dumbing ren so why would that be the case if they produce a mpc hybrid that will cost almost double the money the ren does and uses the same daw when connected to pc?

@jah as i said if you have much money to spend then i see pretty natural to buy any product that hits the market and wait till it comes up to your expectation but can't really see how on earth you are arguing with people who want an mpc proven it can be stable and not full of bugs before they buy it if they don't have extra money to spend.has akai proven to be a brand worth to be trusted blindless??

also time is money????? do you know how many people are unemployed and got nothing but time???? nobody is getting rich that way and certainly nobody can buy a ren by giving his time.

@metatron "Just because tracks can done even with bugs and a feature set that's still in progress doesn't automatically confer best ever status, it just means it generally useable and functional." exactly that!

finally i have stopped making music cause i don't feel any product in the market right now can offer me what i want in order to be inspired again(certainly a mouse and a daw can't work for me) and feeling joy in the process.ren is the only product right now that has these potentials so i won't stop making topics and posts with "wake up calls" about akai to make things right and give us what they have promised us.

as i said in other posts thats good for akai also cause now the only ground that akai is standing on is the lack of some serious competitiveness in the market.if roger linn was a little bit more serious and instead of/or plus tempest had produced a sample based hardware most people would have already said "f@k akai, the ren damn thing is not working right and it's overpriced" and would have bought another hardware.

also if roland was giving us tommorow the mv-9000 or something i would buy it in no time, due to the weight this company name carries and their amazing product-customer support.

akai should take any advantage they have and use it, not asking people to support by buying their products first and not asking people faith when they haven't proved they deserve it 100%

one year since the mpc ren release and still can't hit the undo button with confidence???plssssss.

'Trusted blindless'? Akai is as good as it gets....this is the reason why we are here today and not in another forum talking about another brand.

Roland a trusted brand? Tell that to all the folks that bought a Fantom G...with support dropped nearly as soon as they released it...

JAH wrote:'Trusted blindless'? Akai is as good as it gets....this is the reason why we are here today and not in another forum talking about another brand.

"now the only ground that akai is standing on is the lack of some serious competitiveness in the market"

JAH wrote:Roland a trusted brand? Tell that to all the folks that bought a Fantom G...with support dropped nearly as soon as they released it...

no you tell to people who bought the mpc 5000 that akai is.

JAH wrote:help advance the MPC line. Without MPCs, there is nothing else out there for guys like me/us.

agreed, thats what we also do jah.

It's just the reality of it cpm31. People don't want or buy hardware samplers in the quantity Akai would need to sell in 2013.

And the nightmare from a design standpoint of making the unit anywhere near as powerful in HW standalone mode as the average computer that runs it isn't something that can be done that quickly or without great cost of goods.

The fact they have Studio is far different from what you propose as a hybrid that a hardware mode would be apart of.

Studio was developed at the same time as the Ren and fulfills a specific user need for portability and lower price. And whatever it added to the R&D bottom line is so small it can be considered negligible. That a win for Akai and the customer and allows a two tiered approach by offer two entry points to the platform. Just smart business really.

This proposed super MPC that is hardware and computer based while it would be amazing and cover all wants and bases simply isn't commercially viable. All the more so that even if they wanted to as I mentioned earlier, the price to do so is pulling the plug on the current focus and all it's users before even one year has passed.

Any trust factor and goodwill is destroyed and pretty quick you would have little to no clientele. The simple fact of the matter is from an industry standpoint hardware samplers and drum machines are a sustainable business model for only smaller boutique manufacturers who can control the amount of profit margin more easily than a major corporation that has shareholders to answer to and can't really bank on the smaller numbers that a more niche market consists of. Those firms need mass market penetration and wide adoption of a platform to have their business model be successful.

By accepting that they will never sell the numbers of mainstream firm on their products. A Dave Smith Instruments, a Vermona, an Elektron, or Teenage Engineering can have the opportunity to be successful selling less units as less people are involved and often they are not publicly traded corporations with shareholders. Dave Smith Instruments is like 12 people tops.

Even someone as large as Moog exists closer to that sector of the market than an Akai, Ableton, and Propellerhead as examples. I leave Native Instruments out because they recently had the original founders buy back almost all the stock so there's no real 1:1 comparison for their market penetration commensurate to their still major player status.

I'm not trolling your ideas cpm31, but objectively it's just not going to happen unless Akai wants to be out of business in the next two years. Not to mention this unit you envision would have to have been in the design phase at least two years ago to maybe release this Christmas at best.

It would be like Chevy releasing a new Camaro in September and then in January discontinuing the car and saying catch us in may for the new Vette, so what on the Camaro. They'd be bankrupt by April.

And Jerome, I have a Fantom G a foot from me, yeah it's true they dropped the ball, first on the legacy sample import and then on even acknowledging it exists.

But we all know that Akai has done the same thing and bailed early like the 5k just mentioned. NI it was Kore, companies mess up, it happens. As users you deal with it and if you're willing to give a firm another chance you do. And you hope the company learned from the debacles.

That's all anyone is saying on Ren/Studio, just keep it moving Akai and you'll have a successful product. Or better yet a successful product that keeps getting better and your market share and user base expands exponentially.

Nothing I'm saying is controversially it's just sound business 101.

And that last thing Jerome, that's all I'm saying about you seeing more negativity than is really here. Even if it was as bad as you think, and it's truly not, every time you help somebody or answer that last minute question a guy has on hi sway to the shop you keep the platform moving forward.

They keep up on the updates at reasonably decent intervals it will all take care of it itself. And BTW, in the 1.4 all my posts were "stay patient these thing take some time to do right, I simply stated that people were using the loose date to have a reason to fell more impatient losing sight of the fact that the extra time probably results in an even better update.

As always I wish the platform success.

is jah both repping akai AND mpc-forums?


no wonder he got the e-credit youtube video!


i think roger linn's "chair on the titanic" analogy is perfect.



akai proved they could do what roger di without him. they added a few q-links, some transfer capabilities, some sampling rates and memory, effects....

now... they are trying to do something different (catch up with maschine), and are kinda struggling it seems....

then they forgot everyones favorite comfortable old chairs in many areas of the ship.

then they broke a few more things that gave the ship its "charm"...

then they forgot what made a cruise a cruise and tried to make a cruise a safari...

then they just tried to tell us a cruise WAS a safari... on the box!

a safari where you gotta bring some of your own animals... but none of your own liquor...

proven products arent the life vests at banana republic...



wait...


what are we talking about?

yea.

mpcs dont sell.

new quality products are rare and/or expensive in 2013.

the customer needs to research before they buy.

this place is great for that.


props to akai for trying to balance relevance, innovation, and sustainability.

hopefully they can rise above their legacy.

thats a hard achievement at this point, and at this perception of the projected trajectory of their products...

Metatron72 wrote:It's just the reality of it cpm31. People don't want or buy hardware samplers in the quantity Akai would need to sell in 2013.

And the nightmare from a design standpoint of making the unit anywhere near as powerful in HW standalone mode as the average computer that runs it isn't something that can be done that quickly or without great cost of goods.

The fact they have Studio is far different from what you propose as a hybrid that a hardware mode would be apart of.

Studio was developed at the same time as the Ren and fulfills a specific user need for portability and lower price. And whatever it added to the R&D bottom line is so small it can be considered negligible. That a win for Akai and the customer and allows a two tiered approach by offer two entry points to the platform. Just smart business really.

This proposed super MPC that is hardware and computer based while it would be amazing and cover all wants and bases simply isn't commercially viable. All the more so that even if they wanted to as I mentioned earlier, the price to do so is pulling the plug on the current focus and all it's users before even one year has passed.

Any trust factor and goodwill is destroyed and pretty quick you would have little to no clientele. The simple fact of the matter is from an industry standpoint hardware samplers and drum machines are a sustainable business model for only smaller boutique manufacturers who can control the amount of profit margin more easily than a major corporation that has shareholders to answer to and can't really bank on the smaller numbers that a more niche market consists of. Those firms need mass market penetration and wide adoption of a platform to have their business model be successful.

By accepting that they will never sell the numbers of mainstream firm on their products. A Dave Smith Instruments, a Vermona, an Elektron, or Teenage Engineering can have the opportunity to be successful selling less units as less people are involved and often they are not publicly traded corporations with shareholders. Dave Smith Instruments is like 12 people tops.

Even someone as large as Moog exists closer to that sector of the market than an Akai, Ableton, and Propellerhead as examples. I leave Native Instruments out because they recently had the original founders buy back almost all the stock so there's no real 1:1 comparison for their market penetration commensurate to their still major player status.

I'm not trolling your ideas cpm31, but objectively it's just not going to happen unless Akai wants to be out of business in the next two years. Not to mention this unit you envision would have to have been in the design phase at least two years ago to maybe release this Christmas at best.

It would be like Chevy releasing a new Camaro in September and then in January discontinuing the car and saying catch us in may for the new Vette, so what on the Camaro. They'd be bankrupt by April.

And Jerome, I have a Fantom G a foot from me, yeah it's true they dropped the ball, first on the legacy sample import and then on even acknowledging it exists.

But we all know that Akai has done the same thing and bailed early like the 5k just mentioned. NI it was Kore, companies mess up, it happens. As users you deal with it and if you're willing to give a firm another chance you do. And you hope the company learned from the debacles.

That's all anyone is saying on Ren/Studio, just keep it moving Akai and you'll have a successful product. Or better yet a successful product that keeps getting better and your market share and user base expands exponentially.

propable you are right Metatron72, i don't know sh@t about the cost of a hybrid mpc, don't know much about the market either and certainly don't know how long it can take to make it work something like that.i guessed that if it's groundbreaking as it should i t would sell well cause it would be a must have for everyone who wants some piece of equipment to make music with.again i think that this conversation is a product of mpc ren not being what we hoped for (not hoping that next update is gonna solve this and don't know how many more updates it will take) and 1.4 is still missing even though it's the last week of june.very dissapointed.

As I've mentioned a few times lately Native Instrument has made Maschine owner wait months at a time and we have no idea when release is. But after however many updates to get to 1.8.2 the user base has learned to just be patient and it's always worth the time they take.

But again the ides is cool and lots of people would a want it, but not enough at $200)USD or me, and then all the ramifications of how do design something like that and pay for all the R&D.

But again that why you DSI make a Tempest or the new Prophet synth. The different business model just makes doing older style hardware easier financially.


@Jerome whatever you can't not not be contentious, period. Is it you nightmare to have people be civil and fair in a dialogue with you?

Quotes on the word Forum? My god you're a real piece of work...

Maybe you don't see it as a forum because you refuse to participate in normal dialogue while accusing everyone else of attacking and trolling you. Carry on with your long running persecuted savior script....clearly you not going to deviate from it.