Proper Audio Cables

1TIME4URMINDS wrote:Beware with unbalanced cables. Long cables will degrade the audio quality. If you use more than 90cm to 1m cables the audio signal will automaticly be degraded.

The more long your cable is , the more hum you will hear in your monitors.

.

Can you actually hear the difference though ?
I can't tell the difference by listening between my 5m cables and my 0.5m cables.

in terms of quality of cables, most of us won't prob notice much of a difference.

I am in process of getting rid of all my old random cheap cables with van damne cable and neutrik connectors, which is fairly industry standard and not mega expensive, esp when you have a friend who can make them up for you. main difference I'm noticing is that they are more reliable less prone to loose connections that kind of thing. I could have lived without them if I really needed to.

def don't go for mogomi unless you've got tons of cash to spare. meant to be good cable, but I think its too expensive.

cable is one of those things, you've got some that swear difference is night and day, some that claim its a myth - hard one to call.

I've never bought any cables for my gear, and haven't had any problems so far. All my cables and snakes came with stuff that I bought. Mostly budget HOSA/Neutrik joints. Just watch out for those cheapo connectors and moulded plugs. For a home/project studio, given a choice between TS (unbalanced) and TRS (balanced) cables, go for the TRS. Given a choice between gear with unbalanced and balanced I/O, go for balanced.

Acid Mitch wrote:

1TIME4URMINDS wrote:Beware with unbalanced cables. Long cables will degrade the audio quality. If you use more than 90cm to 1m cables the audio signal will automaticly be degraded.

The more long your cable is , the more hum you will hear in your monitors.

Can you actually hear the difference though ?
I can't tell the difference by listening between my 5m cables and my 0.5m cables.

You can't tell the difference, it will take a much longer unbalanced cables than 1m or 5m before you start picking up hum from nearby AC circuits.


OP is full of it, for example...

1TIME4URMINDS wrote:Your 3k inputs are balanced.

You have to put a balanced signal in these balanced inputs.

This means that if you sample from a vinyl and you put a signal from a dj mixer that have RCA (cinch) outputs , you will sample a unbalanced signal in the balanced inputs.

In this case , your balanced input will react like unbalanced inputs.

To avoid this problem , you will need a box with unbalanced inputs to balanced outputs.

Solution is a box like this :

No, you can put an unbalanced signal into the MPC3000 balanced inputs without any problem at all.

You do not need a box to convert unbalanced to balanced, what a load of sh ite.

From the MPC3000 manual...

COMMENT: The audio input jacks on the rear panel are
balanced inputs having a high, low and ground connection
using a standard stereo phone jack:

However, standard mono phone plugs will work fine—the low
connection will simply connect to ground

1TIME4URMINDS wrote:Balanced means professional

No, balanced means balanced.

Plenty of professional gear has unbalanced connections.

The MPC3000 has balanced inputs, and unbalanced outputs, so is it professional or unprofessional?


OP really has no idea.

Clint wrote: For a home/project studio, given a choice between TS (unbalanced) and TRS (balanced) cables, go for the TRS.

TRS is of no use for an unbalanced connection.

I would use TRS for balanced connections, TS for unbalanced.

My point is TRS can be used for balanced or unbalanced connections, TS doesnt have that capacity. TRS cables therefore are generally more flexible. Of course, if money is no object you can do what the hell you like and get all anal about it.

TRS is more flexibe for both balanced and unbalanced connections, and that is what I am saying to people reading this. Nobody is asking what you would do, that is your perrogative. I am giving general information for people that might be confused.

I am also giving general information for people that may be confused by the recommendation to go TRS, I do not agree, so they can have two different opinions to choose from.

There is no real difference in cost, so money being no object is really not an issue.

SimonInAustralia wrote:

Acid Mitch wrote:

1TIME4URMINDS wrote:Beware with unbalanced cables. Long cables will degrade the audio quality. If you use more than 90cm to 1m cables the audio signal will automaticly be degraded.

The more long your cable is , the more hum you will hear in your monitors.

Can you actually hear the difference though ?
I can't tell the difference by listening between my 5m cables and my 0.5m cables.

You can't tell the difference, it will take a much longer unbalanced cables than 1m or 5m before you start picking up hum from nearby AC circuits.


OP is full of it, for example...

1TIME4URMINDS wrote:Your 3k inputs are balanced.

You have to put a balanced signal in these balanced inputs.

This means that if you sample from a vinyl and you put a signal from a dj mixer that have RCA (cinch) outputs , you will sample a unbalanced signal in the balanced inputs.

In this case , your balanced input will react like unbalanced inputs.

To avoid this problem , you will need a box with unbalanced inputs to balanced outputs.

Solution is a box like this :

No, you can put an unbalanced signal into the MPC3000 balanced inputs without any problem at all.

You do not need a box to convert unbalanced to balanced, what a load of sh ite.

From the MPC3000 manual...

COMMENT: The audio input jacks on the rear panel are
balanced inputs having a high, low and ground connection
using a standard stereo phone jack:

However, standard mono phone plugs will work fine—the low
connection will simply connect to ground

1TIME4URMINDS wrote:Balanced means professional

No, balanced means balanced.

Plenty of professional gear has unbalanced connections.

The MPC3000 has balanced inputs, and unbalanced outputs, so is it professional or unprofessional?


OP really has no idea.

Plenty of gears are unbalanced , I agree but that's only due to cutting cost. Professional gears are always balanced in & outs.

If Roger Linn & Akai remake the MPC3000 today , it would have balanced outs.

Unbalanced is mostly send & return on mid range consoles , so I agree "balanced means balanced" but in comparaison to unbalanced , balanced means professional.

In a recording session , I never seen an audio engineer putting the output of a MPC3000 directly in an audio interface without balancing via preamp or sort of DI box.

6 dB less isn't important? For who?

Thinking with these criteria , I agree : balanced is nothing else but balanced ...

daddymac wrote:Plenty of gears are unbalanced , I agree but that's only due to cutting cost. Professional gears are always balanced in & outs.

Unbalanced is mostly send & return on mid range consoles , so I agree "balanced means balanced" but in comparaison to unbalanced , balanced means professional.

No, professional instruments are usually unbalanced outs.

daddymac wrote:In a recording session , I never seen an audio engineer putting the output of a MPC3000 directly in an audio interface without balancing via preamp or sort of DI box.

Yes, they send the signal through a preamp, to be able control the gain of the signal into the recording device.

They send the signal through a DI, to convert the signal from the usual unbalanced instrument level output to a balanced microphone level signal, to send into a microphone preamp on the console or attached to the recording device.

Not sure what your point is.

daddymac wrote:6 dB less isn't important? For who?

Not important in terms of sending an unbalanced signal into a preamp and then into a recording device, the 6dB difference between balanced and unbalanced makes no difference.

No, professional instruments are usually unbalanced outs.

I don't agree, you speak about instruments of the past. Now all electronic gears are balanced.
I don't speak about electro-acoustical instrument like Bass or guitar. They require INSTR Hi-Z (impedance) inputs. On a lot of mic pre, it's the INSTR input on the front panel.

Now all MPCs have balanced in & outs, same things with keyboards & synth.

Yes, they send the signal through a preamp, to be able control the gain of the signal into the recording device.

They send the signal through a DI, to convert the signal from the usual unbalanced instrument level output to a balanced microphone level signal, to send into a microphone preamp on the console or attached to the recording device.

Not sure what your point is.

We speak about LINE level (unbalanced or balanced?). I don't know what microphone level have to do in this discussion?

The output level of a microphone is very low compared to LINE level. A microphone need to be 40dB preamplified minimun , dynamic & ribbon mics need more.

Usually LINE preamps are -20 to +20dB with balanced outs

Mic pre are 0 to 66dB (76dB or 80dB)

Mic level have nothing to do in this discussion.

Not important in terms of sending an unbalanced signal into a preamp and then into a recording device, the 6dB difference between balanced and unbalanced makes no difference.

Let's agree on one point.

Mic pre have inputs & outputs :
- Mic Input (mic pre stage) different signal path than LINE.
- Line In (unbalanced)
- Line In (balanced)
- Instr In (unbalanced Hi Z)

- Output (balanced)
- Output (unbalanced)


If you put an unbalanced signal into the unbalanced Line In of a mic pre and take this signal from the balanced output. The line stage of the mic preamp is used as an unbalanced to balanced converter. No matter the volume you add or lower to this signal, you have it balanced. All depends on what volume you need to record.

DI are mostly used in live (concert) to eliminate Hum due to long cables.

daddymac wrote:

No, professional instruments are usually unbalanced outs.

I don't agree, you speak about instruments of the past. Now all electronic gears are balanced.

No, not all electronic gears are balanced, both in the past and now.


You used an example as what Roger Linn and Akai would use today, Roger Linn is producing the Tempest, along with Dave Smith, today, using unbalanced outputs...
http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/pro ... /specs.php

I/O
Main audio outputs: 1/4" phone jack (unbalanced)
6 individual voice audio outputs: 1/4" stereo phone jack (unbalanced)

...unbalanced, not instruments of the past.

Now, all electronic gears are not balanced.

daddymac wrote:Now all MPCs have balanced in & outs, same things with keyboards & synth.

No, one of the latest MPCs, the Renaissance, has balanced in & outs...because the the USB audio interface built into the Renaissance is based on an existing Akai USB audio interface that already has balanced in & outs.


It is not the same things with keyboards & synth.

A modern professional keyboard, the Nord Stage 2, for example, has 4 unbalanced outputs...
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?t ... cification

CONNECTIONS
4 Assignable Audio Outputs - ¼", 6,35 mm jacks, unbalanced

A modern professional synth, the MiniMoog Voyager, for example, has a pair of unbalanced outputs...
http://www.moogmusic.com/products/minim ... #specs-tab

Left(Mono) and Right Audio Outputs
The audio outputs are 1/4 " unbalanced outputs.

Now all keyboards & synth are not balanced.

daddymac wrote:

Yes, they send the signal through a preamp, to be able control the gain of the signal into the recording device.
They send the signal through a DI, to convert the signal from the usual unbalanced instrument level output to a balanced microphone level signal, to send into a microphone preamp on the console or attached to the recording device.

Not sure what your point is.

We speak about LINE level (unbalanced or balanced?). I don't know what microphone level have to do in this discussion?

Because you do not understand what the purpose of a DI is.

You mentioned DIs, the purpose of a DI is to turn an unbalanced instrument level signal, into a balanced microphone level signal, to send through a microphone multicore, to feed into a microphone preamp, to provide adjustable gain before the recording/mixing device.

daddymac wrote:The output level of a microphone is very low compared to LINE level. A microphone need to be 40dB preamplified minimun , dynamic & ribbon mics need more.

Usually LINE preamps are -20 to +20dB with balanced outs

Mic pre are 0 to 66dB (76dB or 80dB)

Mic level have nothing to do in this discussion.

It does when you mention DIs and preamps, because they are using microphone level signals.

daddymac wrote:DI are mostly used in live (concert) to eliminate Hum due to long cables.

No, they are also used in the studio, as you told us in an earlier post.

DIs are used in both live performances, and in studio recordings, to convert an unbalanced instrument level signal into a balanced microphone level signal, so that it can be sent from the stage to the FOH and monitor mixers in a live situation, or from the studio to the control room mixer/mic pres in a studio situation, through the microphone multicores, to the microphone preamps in the live or studio mixer/preamps, and so that the signal from the instrument arrives at the mic pres in the same format as the microphone signals being sent through that multicore.

Excuse me but I don't intend to write a book.

Microphone level have nothing to do in this discussion. I'm audio engineer.

We speak about LINE level (balanced or unbalanced).

Unbalanced outputs are due to cutting cost of manufacture and they know the outputs of their gear will be converted to balanced via a Tube preamp or DI in the recording process.

What does mean "microphone level" for you ?

daddymac wrote:Excuse me but I don't intend to write a book.

Well, if you didn't write so much incorrect information to respond to, a book would not be written.

daddymac wrote:Microphone level have nothing to do in this discussion.

They do when you start talking about DIs, because that is the type of signal that is output from a DI...

daddymac wrote:In a recording session , I never seen an audio engineer putting the output of a MPC3000 directly in an audio interface without balancing via preamp or sort of DI box.

daddymac wrote:I'm audio engineer.

Wow, really? That is amazing!!!

daddymac wrote:Unbalanced outputs are due to cutting cost of manufacture and they know the outputs of their gear will be converted to balanced via a Tube preamp or DI in the recording process.

OMG, seriously, you think they design these instruments specifically to be input to a Tube preamp?

A DI also converts the signal to a microphone level signal, appropriate for the input of a microphone preamp.


For a self proclaimed audio engineer, there seems to be massive gaps in your knowledge of audio theory!

You don't know what you speak about.

What you call microphone level , we call it "IMPEDANCE" in the audio world.

Microphone level and IMPEDANCE are not the same thing. A DI output can be put in a line or microphone input , it depends on what type of signal is at the input.


Wow really, be serious ....

daddymac wrote:You don't know what you speak about.

What you call microphone level , we call it "IMPEDANCE" in the audio world.

Microphone level and IMPEDANCE are not the same thing. A DI output can be put in a line or microphone input , it depends on what type of signal is at the input.

Wow really, be serious ....

HAAAHAAAAAAA!!!

You are digging your hole of ignorance deeper with every post.

You really have no idea at all, it isn't worth responding to you anymore, I have pointed out how incorrect you are above, and this latest post is the icing on the cake!


I go out of this place.