best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

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Re: Had a feeling you were going to ask that.

By Lampdog Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:41 am
Lampdog emphasized and quoted when he wrote:
Lampdog wrote:Look at the mpc studio routing diagram at the front of maybe every mpc manual.
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By Lampdog Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:05 am
You dont HAVE to have a clock if you dont want, but if you thought midi was to go to mixer it's no point in me even going into the "no clock zone" :lol:
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By SimonInAustralia Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:39 am
I wouldn't bother with MIDI clock.

From what I remember, it is not very accurate, something like only being able to sync up somewhere randomly within 1 quarter frame. Not sure what that is in samples, would have to calculate it, and test it.

Just put a blank bar at the start of the sequence, with some sort of 'sync' sound/pulse, something with an obvious sharp attack, and record that with each separate pass.

Once everything is recorded into the DAW, zoom in to sample level, line up the 'sync' sounds/pulses on each separate pass so that they are in sync.


I also would not record through the mixer, unless using it to actually add effects while recording.
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Manually line up tracks.

By Lampdog Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:21 am
"No clock zone"

SimonInAustralia wrote:Just put a blank bar at the start of the sequence, with some sort of 'sync' sound/pulse, something with an obvious sharp attack, and record that with each separate pass.

Once everything is recorded into the DAW, zoom in to sample level, line up the 'sync' sounds/pulses on each separate pass so that they are in sync.


LarryB wrote:maybe you should re-read some of what i said, bud

I wont.

"with clock"

Mpc midi to mbox midi.
Insert blank bar in front of each sequence in order to give midi a chance to lock up before the music actually begins. Do this for every sequence. No click/sound/pulse needed because midi was used for sync.
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Re: Manually line up tracks.

By SimonInAustralia Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:29 am
Lampdog wrote:No click/sound/pulse needed because midi was used for sync.

...but possibly not actually in very tight sync, due to slop in MIDI protocol.

Would be interesting to see a test to compare how in sync multiple MIDI clock or MTC passes actually are.

From my poor memory, I think it was MTC that had random slop within 1/4 of a frame on each pass due to the protocol, not sure what MIDI clock sync would be like.
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By Lampdog Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:39 am
1 blank bar to let midi lock I said.

Even after recording you can slide the stem in place.

Your making this bigger than it needs to be.
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By LarryB Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:47 am
thanks alot simon and lamp.., yeah the mixer im interested in is a 16 channel with effects that ive seen bulk up the drum sounds especially, some other great effects im interested in as well

ive recorded straight mpc to mbox to protools before but i hated not having the kicks especially recorded by themselves on another track...

lamp...but if i go mpc midi to mbox midi, and mpc assignable mixouts into the mixer, 2 outs from the mixer into the mboxs line inputs,

would everything go as planned? - syncd clock and audio connections etc.. ( i know i would have to do one track at a time muting or soloing out the others etc)
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By Coz Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:29 pm
Lampdog wrote:Even after recording you can slide the stem in place.



EVERYONE either forgets or just don't realise how essential this skill is in a DAW. There's more pros than cons for ditching the midi connection altogether between the MPC and computer, but you never hear about it.

I'm not having a pop OP... just venting. :fku: :lol:
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By SimonInAustralia Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:44 pm
Lampdog wrote:1 blank bar to let midi lock I said.

Even after recording you can slide the stem in place.

Your making this bigger than it needs to be.

Yep, you can say 1 blank bar to let midi lock all you want, I am simply questioning how tight that lock is, I do not think it is going to be sample accurate on each pass, it is going to probably be out of sync by a small/different random amount each pass.

Maybe each pass being out by a small random amount is not an issue, but without knowing how much it is out, there is no way to know.

You can not slide a stem into place after recording without some sort of marker to define where it is suppose to be in sync.

And if you have to slide a stem into place, after recording, using some sort of sync marker included in each recording pass, then there really isn't any point to using MIDI for sync in the first place.

I am not making anything bigger than it needs to be, just asking questions about how tight MIDI sync used for multiple recording passes actually is.
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By Lampdog Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:54 pm
LarryB wrote:lamp...but if i go mpc midi to mbox midi, and mpc assignable mixouts into the mixer, 2 outs from the mixer into the mboxs line inputs. ( i know i would have to do one track at a time muting or soloing out the others etc)

Did you check out the mpc diagrams at the beginning of mpc manuals?
Check the studio/gear routing, it's what we've been telling you but you. You never said if you've checked it out.

Midi doesn't touch your mixer, it has nothing to do with.
Audio from all gear goes to the mixer, mixer audio out to mbox.
Mbox to daw and record.

Mbox get mid and audio together and throws it at the daw.

I and many other people do this same thing or something super similar, we're waiting for you to do it too.

My setup, triton extreme midi and turbo phatt midi to mpc 4k.
Mpc 4k midi to rme ufx.

Triton extreme audio and turbo phatt audio out to rme ufx.

My audio interface is my mixer. I have eq/effects/channel strip in my ufx as I dont care for a physical mixer.

I am not making anything bigger than it needs to be, just asking questions about how tight MIDI sync used for multiple recording passes actually is.

Your convoluting the discussion. 1 bar to let it lock and if needed slide the stem in place within daw, done. No one has to ask or seem to worry about tight lock. It can be fixed manually, even nudged more/less for a different feel if wanted/needed.

When extra is introduced into conversation topic gets derailed, op possibly gets confused and answers/help gets lost/covered up and it's not fair to the op.
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By SimonInAustralia Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:00 pm
Lampdog wrote:Your convoluting the discussion. 1 bar to let it lock and if needed slide the stem in place within daw, done.

You can't slide it into place, if you don't know what 'in place' actually is.


Lampdog wrote:No one has to ask or seem to worry about tight lock. It can be fixed manually, even nudged more/less for a different feel if wanted/needed.

It can't be fixed manually, without knowing how much out of sync it is in the first place, or without having some sort of sync points/markers/whatever to line up.


Lampdog wrote:When extra is introduced into conversation topic gets derailed, op possibly gets confused and answers/help gets lost/covered up and it's not fair to the op.

If it gives a better outcome than the standard suggestion, in this case to just use MIDI clock for syncing multiple passes, without any idea as to how accurate that sync really is, then it deserves discussion.

The OP can take, or not take, whatever he wants from any discussion.


This is part of the question in the OP...
LarryB wrote:would the ideal and proper way to properly track the beat out be by : running the midi out of the mbox into the mpc midi in (for the beat clock mainly)..

'If' syncing using MIDI clock introduces random slop between each recording pass, then I do not agree that it is the ideal and proper way to do it.


If I get around to it, I will do a test, and see how accurate it is.
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By Coz Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:15 pm
SimonInAustralia wrote:It can't be fixed manually, without knowing how much out of sync it is in the first place, or without having some sort of sync points/markers/whatever to line up.



What DAW are you using? In Cubase it's a piece of piss to realign or purposely misalign audio in millisecond increments. So yeah, erroneous timing can be fixed manually with ease.

The only tool you need is your ears.
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Re: best method of recording into mbox/protools etc

By Lampdog Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:19 pm
You can't slide it into place, if you don't know what 'in place' actually is.
You have ears, they are for music, use them, music is not made completely by numbers.

It can't be fixed manually, without knowing how much out of sync it is in the first place, or without having some sort of sync points/markers/whatever to line up.
Again, your forgetting ears dude.

Derailing by focusing on numbers when sliding/nudging can be done with ears too ya know. Both, a mix of both techniques is very useful too.
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